Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
On May 2, 2008, at 5:06 AM, Jan Rychter wrote: When the focus is in the collections panel, pressing tab should take me to the list of documents, not to the little buttons below the collections panel. [snip] Next TAB should go to the title, then tags, then content (NOT to the rarely used Encrypt button!) [snip] When creating new documents using the little dialog box in the corner of the screen, I don't want to TAB over the little arrow button next to the Name, I want to go straight to tags and then the text. I don't see this behavior on my system. Perhaps you have All controls enabled for the Full keyboard access preference in System Preferences - Keyboard Mouse - Keyboard Shortcuts? I dare you to try using Yojimbo without a mouse. Put a quarter in a coin box every time you have to reach for the mouse to do something or every time an extra key press is needed. Hmm, I don't really see a problem here. I use Yojimbo with just the keyboard all the time. The only case where there *might* be an issue is tabbing from the search field to the sidebar rather than directly to the list view. Other than that, everything seems to work as expected. -Dennis -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
Thanks for your response Steve, great to have some direct answers from the guy who kicked it all off :o) Now, naturally, I want more! :o) In the past I've drawn a distinction between 'nested folders' and a means to group collections in the sidebar. I see these as distinct things and I've copied the original post below where I go into more detail on the issue. My question is, do you see these as one and the same or would you consider the latter as a different feature request. To me nested folders means hierarchical organisation and I'd be the first to agree this is not necessary, I'd be interested in your view on the matter. I appreciate there's more than one way to skin a cat and to my mind a different approach to tag navigation could obviate the need for this, but as an interface designer myself I'm keeping my cards close to my chest on that one as I have a particular solution in mind for a project of my own! ;o) Regards, T. Extract from that previous post… Tag collection grouping OK, hopefully no one thinks I'm trying to pull a fast one and change the name of the game from 'nested folders' but on reviewing the previous threads again I think the debate gets sidetracked into one of hierarchy vs. tagging - a fine debate in it's own right but not really what I'm after as a feature request. I'm really very happy with tag search approach for many things, but for quick reference and ad-hoc corralling of tagged information I use tag collections extensively. I have a lot of them, too many to be easily reviewable in one long multi-page scrolling list - not (I'll pre-empt the inevitable response) in some vain attempt to re-impose an old fashioned hierarchy, but simply to take advantage of the benefits of tagging for the purposes of browsing (as opposed to searching). It is a pain to only be able to sort these tag collections alphabetically (even with alpha-numeric prefixes) in one long list. The long and short of it is that, for whatever reason, i have a lot of tag collections, all I really need is a more control over how they are organised and presented, a single level of grouping would do just fine. I can see how this could cause ambiguity leading to an impression of support for deep hierarchy but i doubt this is insurmountable - perhaps some judicious use of naming to conceptually divorce 'tag collections' from 'collections' and a visually distinct icon to further distinguish the concepts might overcome this problem? Or maybe separating smart collections, collections, and tag collections with sub-titles in the sidebar as iTunes does would do the trick? On 1 May 2008, at 14:20, Steve Kalkwarf wrote: I'm not singling out Rhet, but there are several ideas embodied in this paragraph that bear comment: If someone from BareBones does pipe in, it's usually to say We're never going to add that feature. See previous post... This compares poorly to several other indie-Mac software lists I'm on (such as the forum for Leap and Yep, both excellent applications: http://www.ironicsoftware.com/) where the developer is happy to get feedback on what users actually want and participates in the dialogue. Let me start off by saying no matter what I, or another Bare Bones representative says, a large number of people will be unhappy. For years we said Thanks for the feedback, and we'll consider adding this functionality. Then, email every time we shipped an update we'd get a reminder email, asking why the feature wasn't in that version. Other people waited and waited for the feature to arrive, but it wasn't going to. I thought that was unfair. Now, if a feature request has a known disposition, we generally share that answer. Nested folders? No. If you _have_ to have that feature, you will be better off elsewhere. Does this compare poorly with other companies? I don't know. I prefer the honest answer, whether it makes people happy or not. Another assumption (again, not picking on Rhet) is that implementing every feature request is a good idea. If you take a step back and look at the types of requests people make, with rare exception (nested folders, smart collections, better tag management) they are particular to the requester's existing workflow. The one feature I have to have is not the one feature you have to have, or Charlie has to have, or probably more than a couple people have to have. The implied assumption that tends to go along with almost any request is that adding feature X doesn't increase the complexity of Yojimbo. That is untrue. In a past life, I spent countless hours helping novice Mac users find the files they had lost, because they had no idea where they were saving, or because they saved all their files in the Word folder, and when they updated Word, lost everything. The average computer user is overwhelmed by choices, and as simple as this sounds,
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
Good afternoon, On 1/5/08 at 12:04 AM -0400, Jerry Weldon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, I want to be able to have multiple self-contained library databases. This would not add any complexity whatsoever for those who like Yojimbo the way it is--they can simply continue using one monolithic library--but it would add an order of magnitude of usefulness for me, and I suspect for others as well. There is another software package, can't recall the name of it right now, which will manage multiple prefs/databases/whatever for programs that are not designed around 'documents'. You should be able to use that to have multiple databases for Yojimbo. Charlie -- Charlie Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
There is another software package, can't recall the name of it right now, which will manage multiple prefs/databases/whatever for programs that are rooSwitch http://roobasoft.com/rooSwitch/ --Rhet On 5/1/08, Charlie Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good afternoon, On 1/5/08 at 12:04 AM -0400, Jerry Weldon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, I want to be able to have multiple self-contained library databases. This would not add any complexity whatsoever for those who like Yojimbo the way it is--they can simply continue using one monolithic library--but it would add an order of magnitude of usefulness for me, and I suspect for others as well. There is another software package, can't recall the name of it right now, which will manage multiple prefs/databases/whatever for programs that are not designed around 'documents'. You should be able to use that to have multiple databases for Yojimbo. Charlie -- Charlie Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
I'm not singling out Rhet, but there are several ideas embodied in this paragraph that bear comment: If someone from BareBones does pipe in, it's usually to say We're never going to add that feature. See previous post... This compares poorly to several other indie-Mac software lists I'm on (such as the forum for Leap and Yep, both excellent applications: http://www.ironicsoftware.com/) where the developer is happy to get feedback on what users actually want and participates in the dialogue. Let me start off by saying no matter what I, or another Bare Bones representative says, a large number of people will be unhappy. For years we said Thanks for the feedback, and we'll consider adding this functionality. Then, email every time we shipped an update we'd get a reminder email, asking why the feature wasn't in that version. Other people waited and waited for the feature to arrive, but it wasn't going to. I thought that was unfair. Now, if a feature request has a known disposition, we generally share that answer. Nested folders? No. If you _have_ to have that feature, you will be better off elsewhere. Does this compare poorly with other companies? I don't know. I prefer the honest answer, whether it makes people happy or not. Another assumption (again, not picking on Rhet) is that implementing every feature request is a good idea. If you take a step back and look at the types of requests people make, with rare exception (nested folders, smart collections, better tag management) they are particular to the requester's existing workflow. The one feature I have to have is not the one feature you have to have, or Charlie has to have, or probably more than a couple people have to have. The implied assumption that tends to go along with almost any request is that adding feature X doesn't increase the complexity of Yojimbo. That is untrue. In a past life, I spent countless hours helping novice Mac users find the files they had lost, because they had no idea where they were saving, or because they saved all their files in the Word folder, and when they updated Word, lost everything. The average computer user is overwhelmed by choices, and as simple as this sounds, every feature or menu item represents a choice. By no means am I the authority on simplicity vs. complexity, but our goal was to make Yojimbo powerful, yet simple to use. Another interesting belief carried by most power users (and I include myself in this group) is that they are representative of all users. This can't be farther from the truth. Everybody on this list sees the mailing list posts. I see those, and tech support inquiries. There are more support inquires than there are posts on this list. Way more. I can assure you that everyone on this list is head and shoulders above most customers writing in for help. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. As your reward, a summary of the popular requests, and their status: Nested folders: Sorry, no. Smart collections: Yes, near the top of the list. Better tagging interactions: Nearer the top of the list. Stuff nobody has asked for: At the top of the list. And before anyone asks why stuff nobody asked for is higher up than the one feature I have to have, remember, nobody asked us to write Yojimbo, either. Updates to other Bare Bones products: What do you think we've been doing since the last Yojimbo update? :-) Steve -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
On May 1, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Steve Kalkwarf wrote: If you made it this far, thanks for reading. As your reward, a summary of the popular requests, and their status: In fact, it's the first post I've read FULLY for quite a while. Thanks! Updates to other Bare Bones products: What do you think we've been doing since the last Yojimbo update? :-) Well, as they say on Law Order, you opened the door. So, this begs the question: I don't know, what HAVE you been doing with Mailsmith? I paid for Mailsmith a long long time ago. And I haven't used it in a long time. I understand your comments about the one feature I have to have, but ... IMAP. -- Sherman -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[admin] Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
Sorry for the interruption, but as a reminder, this is *Yojimbo-Talk* :-) Regards, Patrick Woolsey == Bare Bones Software, Inc.http://www.barebones.com P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048 Sherman Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED] sez: On May 1, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Steve Kalkwarf wrote: If you made it this far, thanks for reading. As your reward, a summary of the popular requests, and their status: In fact, it's the first post I've read FULLY for quite a while. Thanks! Updates to other Bare Bones products: What do you think we've been doing since the last Yojimbo update? :-) Well, as they say on Law Order, you opened the door. So, this begs the question: I don't know, what HAVE you been doing with Mailsmith? I paid for Mailsmith a long long time ago. And I haven't used it in a long time. I understand your comments about the one feature I have to have, but ... IMAP. -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
On 01. May. 08, at 17:04 , Steve Kalkwarf wrote: For reasons far to detailed to go into, multiple libraries and .Mac syncing cannot co-exist. Trust me on this one. This is interesting. Is this a (current) limitation of .mac syncing that is associated with SQL CoreData libraries ? I can think of other 3rd party apps that can sync multiple entities over .mac, but perhaps they all have a different data storage model ? Until you made this statement, I was thinking^[1] that this could work as long as all libraries had unique names/IDs. Mark. [1]: FWIW, this is something for which I anticipate a need in certain apps (e.g. Things) with which I work from more than one machine, but not in Yojimbo. I use Yojimbo (perhaps as intended) for storing everything in one place, rather than e.g. keeping private and professional apart. (Maybe the difference is that I retrieve from Yojimbo, but (in this example) work in Things. Clutter in Yojimbo would only be a problem if it prevented me from finding something. -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
On May 1, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Steve Kalkwarf wrote: snip If you made it this far, thanks for reading. As your reward, a summary of the popular requests, and their status: Nested folders: Sorry, no. Smart collections: Yes, near the top of the list. Better tagging interactions: Nearer the top of the list. Stuff nobody has asked for: At the top of the list. And before anyone asks why stuff nobody asked for is higher up than the one feature I have to have, remember, nobody asked us to write Yojimbo, either. If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse. - Henry Ford, industrialist (1863–1947) Updates to other Bare Bones products: What do you think we've been doing since the last Yojimbo update? :-) Is Yojimbo the One True App? No. Doth it rock, nevertheless? Yes it does. Thanks for making it, thanks for continuing to improve it, and I'm looking forward to the next release... -- Lorin Rivers Mosasaur: Killer Technical Marketing http://www.mosasaur.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 512/203.3198 (m) -- -- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list yojimbo-talk@barebones.com. To unsubscribe, send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List archives: http://www.listsearch.com/yojimbotalk.lasso Have a feature request, or not sure if the software's working correctly? Please send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
In other words, I want to be able to have multiple self-contained library databases. You might want to try Eagle Filer: http://c-command.com/eaglefiler/ It is similar to Yojimbo but supports multiple libraries and nested folders. It also stores its data as regular files in the filesystem so you could easily copy all the files you want and give to a friend per the use case you outlined or browse your data with the Finder. Now, some comments on the recent discussions on this list... First, I'm not a Yojimbo-hater -- I've used Yojimbo since it was released and have a library with thousands of records. However, I've gotten very tired of the lack of nested folders (makes the drop dock too big), lack of true Smart Collections, lack of a read only flag, and the monolithic database as well as lack of Time Machine support. At the time that I bought Yojimbo, I extensively evaluated every digital junk drawer application for the Mac and settled on Yojimbo because of ease of use, exportability, Applescriptability, and most importantly, .Mac syncing. The only reason I've stuck with Yojimbo so far is .Mac syncing. I want my data available on multiple computers and none of Yojimbo's competitors support seamless .Mac syncing the way Yojimbo does. However, if the next paid upgrade from Yojimbo doesn't address some of those issues I mentioned (and have been mentioned by many others on this list), then I'll buy one of the competing products, most likely Eagle Filer and work around the lack of .Mac syncing (Eagle Filer can store it's library on iDisk for example). Since I use Yojimbo more than any other app on my Mac, that's not idle talk -- switching would be a big investment of time. I've got a lot of data in Yojimbo and a lot of time invested in scripts to make Yojimbo fit into my workflow. Contrary to some of the other posts on this list in the last few days, I do think Yojimbo needs some improvement and I think this list is a good place to discuss it. It's rather disheartening to see the Yojimbo fans shoot down any feature request because I like Yojimbo the way it is -- there's always room for improvement and honest dialogue by Yojimbo power-users (probably the majority of people on this list) is a good way for the developers to get feedback on what their *paying* users want. Unfortunately, what usually happens on this list is that a Yojimbo fan will tell the feature-requester to go away because Yojimbo is great the way it is and the developer won't say anything. If someone from BareBones does pipe in, it's usually to say We're never going to add that feature. See previous post... This compares poorly to several other indie-Mac software lists I'm on (such as the forum for Leap and Yep, both excellent applications: http://www.ironicsoftware.com/) where the developer is happy to get feedback on what users actually want and participates in the dialogue. Of course, not every feature can or should be added -- as someone who's written a lot of software, I hate feature bloat as much as the next guy. But I'd rather give my money to a company that listens to its users and tries to provide a product the users want instead of what the developer thinks the users *should* want. Several of my friends and colleagues use Yojimbo based on my recommendation. I think it's a useful application and a great value but I'm not sure I can continue to recommend it, for the reasons given above. I really like the application and it's simplified my life but I still find that I'm doing too much bending of my workflow to suit Yojimbo. Software is a tool that should work for me, not the other way around. Cheers, Rhet On Apr 30, 2008, at 11:04 PM, Jerry Weldon wrote: I'm glad there are people who like Yojimbo the way it is. I want people to buy it, because I think Bare Bones is a good company and I want it to continue to exist. However, Yojimbo is not quite adequate for my needs. I tried Yojimbo for the 30-day trial period last summer, using it to collect information for a vacation. I found it to be very useful, and a pleasure to use. It was handy to be able to store PDFs and web archives of information I wanted to come back to easily, as well as my own notes. Yojimbo was my first experience with tagging, and I found that to be useful as well. When the trial period was over, however, I did not purchase the program. Why not? Our vacation was over. I no longer needed the information immediately at hand, but neither did I want to delete it. What I really wanted was to set that library aside and start a new one for the next project or trip. I'd like to use Yojimbo to collect everything related to a particular project, and be able to store that collection with other project materials, be it on a CD in a box with other items or on a computer at a different location. Perhaps a friend would like to
