Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
I have an Asus P5K WS motherboard with a cheap Core 2 Duo CPU (E2140, $70 or so) and one of the cheap SuperMicro 8-port PCI-X SATA cards. That gives you 14 supported SATA ports. Throw 4 GB of RAM into it (~$100) and then either use 500 GB or 750 GB drives. One of the Seagate 750s is down to $155 this week, which puts it close enough to the 500s ($90-120) that it might be worth considering. I threw everything into a Lian Li PC-V2000A Plus II case, which is kind of pricy (compared to cheap PC cases, not compared to STK hardware :-) but holds 12 drives without any problem at all, and 20 drives with a bit of extra hardware. Before drives, the whole system's well under $1k, and it's been working perfectly for months now. I'm using raidz2 across 8 drives, but if I had it to do again, I'd probably just use mirroring. Unfortunately, raidz2 kills your random read and write performance, and that makes Time Machine really, really slow. I'm running low on space now, and considering throwing another 8 drives into the case in the spring, if I can find a cheap 8-port PCI-E SATA CARD. When that happens, I'll probably try to convert everything to mirroring. Scott On Jan 14, 2008 8:33 AM, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm sure this has been asked many times and though a quick search didn't reveal anything illuminating, I'll post regardless. I am looking to make a storage system available on my home network. I need storage space in the order of terabytes as I have a growing iTunes collection and tons of MP3s that I converted from vinyl. At this time I am unsure of the growth rate, but I suppose it isn't unreasonable to look for 4TB usable storage. Since I will not be backing this up, I think I want RAIDZ2. Since this is for home use, I don't want to spend an inordinate amount of money. I did look at the cheaper STK arrays, but they're more than what I want to pay, so I am thinking that puts me in the white-box market. Power consumption would be nice to keep low also. I don't really care if it's external or internal disks. Even though I don't want to get completely skinned over the money, I also don't want to buy something that is unreliable. I am very interested as to your thoughts and experiences on this. E.g. what to buy, what to stay away from. Thanks in advance! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Thanks a bunch! I'll look into this very config. Just one Q, where did you get the case? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Everything except the SuperMicro SATA card came from Newegg. They didn't have the card in stock at the time, so I ordered it from buy.com. Scott On Jan 14, 2008 9:33 AM, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks a bunch! I'll look into this very config. Just one Q, where did you get the case? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Run 'defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1' as root. I've been using it since November without problems, but I haven't actually had to restore anything in anger yet. There's a rumor that Apple will be officially adding network support to Time Machine this week, but who knows. Scott On Jan 14, 2008 9:40 AM, Arne Schwabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott Laird schrieb: I have an Asus P5K WS motherboard with a cheap Core 2 Duo CPU (E2140, $70 or so) and one of the cheap SuperMicro 8-port PCI-X SATA cards. That gives you 14 supported SATA ports. Throw 4 GB of RAM into it (~$100) and then either use 500 GB or 750 GB drives. One of the Seagate 750s is down to $155 this week, which puts it close enough to the 500s ($90-120) that it might be worth considering. I threw everything into a Lian Li PC-V2000A Plus II case, which is kind of pricy (compared to cheap PC cases, not compared to STK hardware :-) but holds 12 drives without any problem at all, and 20 drives with a bit of extra hardware. Before drives, the whole system's well under $1k, and it's been working perfectly for months now. I'm using raidz2 across 8 drives, but if I had it to do again, I'd probably just use mirroring. Unfortunately, raidz2 kills your random read and write performance, and that makes Time Machine really, really slow. I'm running low on space now, and considering throwing another 8 drives into the case in the spring, if I can find a cheap 8-port PCI-E SATA CARD. When that happens, I'll probably try to convert everything to mirroring. Just a question how did you make time machine work on a network drive? Arne ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 09:52:38AM -0800, Scott Laird wrote: Run 'defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1' as root. I've been using it since November without problems, but I haven't actually had to restore anything in anger yet. I couldn't get that to work with NFS shares, has anyone else? -brian -- Perl can be fast and elegant as much as J2EE can be fast and elegant. In the hands of a skilled artisan, it can and does happen; it's just that most of the shit out there is built by people who'd be better suited to making sure that my burger is cooked thoroughly. -- Jonathan Patschke ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
I'm using smb. Mount the share via the finder, then go to the time machine pref pane, and it should show up. Scott On Jan 14, 2008 10:03 AM, Brian Hechinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 09:52:38AM -0800, Scott Laird wrote: Run 'defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1' as root. I've been using it since November without problems, but I haven't actually had to restore anything in anger yet. I couldn't get that to work with NFS shares, has anyone else? -brian -- Perl can be fast and elegant as much as J2EE can be fast and elegant. In the hands of a skilled artisan, it can and does happen; it's just that most of the shit out there is built by people who'd be better suited to making sure that my burger is cooked thoroughly. -- Jonathan Patschke ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:10:26AM -0800, Scott Laird wrote: I'm using smb. Mount the share via the finder, then go to the time machine pref pane, and it should show up. I guess it's time to setup SAMBA then. :) Thanks! I've been wanting to backup the mini and the macbook to the fileserver ever since I saw Time Machine. I can't wait to get home now ;) -brian -- Perl can be fast and elegant as much as J2EE can be fast and elegant. In the hands of a skilled artisan, it can and does happen; it's just that most of the shit out there is built by people who'd be better suited to making sure that my burger is cooked thoroughly. -- Jonathan Patschke ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Alex, I imagine that you've spent/will spend dozens or perhaps hundreds of hours ripping your MP3's. Don't even think about skipping backups. Budget in the cost of backups, preferably off site backups, even something you can carry to work and lock in your desk. Buy a four drive USB enclosure and 4 1TB drives. That would work. As reliable as zfs is, there's no technological fix for natural disasters, or human error. My 2 cents. Jon Alex wrote: Hi, I'm sure this has been asked many times and though a quick search didn't reveal anything illuminating, I'll post regardless. I am looking to make a storage system available on my home network. I need storage space in the order of terabytes as I have a growing iTunes collection and tons of MP3s that I converted from vinyl. At this time I am unsure of the growth rate, but I suppose it isn't unreasonable to look for 4TB usable storage. Since I will not be backing this up, I think I want RAIDZ2. Since this is for home use, I don't want to spend an inordinate amount of money. I did look at the cheaper STK arrays, but they're more than what I want to pay, so I am thinking that puts me in the white-box market. Power consumption would be nice to keep low also. I don't really care if it's external or internal disks. Even though I don't want to get completely skinned over the money, I also don't want to buy something that is unreliable. I am very interested as to your thoughts and experiences on this. E.g. what to buy, what to stay away from. Thanks in advance! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- - _/ _/ / - Jonathan Loran - - -/ / /IT Manager - - _ / _ / / Space Sciences Laboratory, UC Berkeley -/ / / (510) 643-5146 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __/__/__/ AST:7731^29u18e3 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=AOC-SAT2MVc=frpid=84b59337aa4414aa488fdf95dfd0de1a1e2a21528d6d2fbf89732c9ed77b72a4 ^^that was the best price I could find when looking 6 months ago. Dunno if that's changed since. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On Jan 14, 2008 7:02 PM, Scott Laird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an Asus P5K WS motherboard with a cheap Core 2 Duo CPU (E2140, $70 or so) and one of the cheap SuperMicro 8-port PCI-X SATA cards. I went for Celeron 420 (around $35) - with ZFS compression turned on it runs with ~ 80% idle dissipating less than 35W (I am also thinking of disconnecting CPU fan altogether) -- Regards, Cyril ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. http://rsync.net/ $1.60 per month per G (no experience) to keep this more ontopic and not spam like. what about [home] backups??.. what's the best deal for you: 1) a 4+1 (space) or 2*(2+1) (speed) 64bit 4G+ zfs nas (data for old thread topic :-) 2) same nas but rsync to a 3+0 pool kept remote, done periodically 3) same nas but rsync to a service how large are physical and code base risks? Rob ps: sorry about hijacking the thread.. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
I'm using raidz2 across 8 drives, but if I had it to do again, I'd probably just use mirroring. Unfortunately, raidz2 kills your random read and write performance, and that makes Time Machine really, really slow. I'm running low on space now, and considering throwing another 8 drives into the case in the spring, if I can find a cheap 8-port PCI-E SATA CARD. When that happens, I'll probably try to convert everything to mirroring. Not sure how you have those 8 drives configured, but if you haven't already then you should take a look at: http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#RAID- Z_Configuration_Requirements_and_Recommendations If you could do it over again, then you would get better performance by having more top level vdevs. So instead of a single 6+2 raidz2 top level vdev, you could have (assuming two more disks), 2 3+2 raidz2 vdevs. Depends on what is important to you. eric ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
http://rsync.net/ $1.60 per month per G (no experience) ^^how does that compete with 4.95/month for all you can store? At 1.60/G, I dunno about most people here, but I'd be broke real quick :D As for personal, mine's all 4+1. I have the luxury of working for a storage reseller so backups are free :) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote: www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I just signed on and am trying Mozy out. Note, its $5 per computer and its *not* archival. If you delete something on your computer, then 30 days later it is not going to be backed up anymore. eric ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
I see a business opportunity for someone... Backups for the masses... of Unix / VMS and other OS/s out there. any takers? :) Nathan. Jonathan Loran wrote: eric kustarz wrote: On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote: www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I just signed on and am trying Mozy out. Note, its $5 per computer and its *not* archival. If you delete something on your computer, then 30 days later it is not going to be backed up anymore. eric And they don't support Solaris or Linux, so that means I would have to transfer everything indirectly from my Mac. Or worse yet, run windoz in a VM. Hardly practical. Why is it we always have to be second class citizens! Power to the (*x) people! Jon -- - _/ _/ / - Jonathan Loran - - -/ / /IT Manager - - _ / _ / / Space Sciences Laboratory, UC Berkeley -/ / / (510) 643-5146 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __/__/__/ AST:7731^29u18e3 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On 1/14/08, eric kustarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote: www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. mozy's been okay, but only for windows/OS X. uploading can be slow sometimes... i do like rsync.net since it is a totally standards based solution, not proprietary. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Another free.99 option if you have the extra hardware lying around is boxbackup. http://www.boxbackup.org/ I haven't used it personally, but heard good things. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
I've been tempted to get one of my neighbors to host a small box with ~4 drives and then either rsync or zfs send backups to it over wifi; that'd protect against fire or theft, but not major earthquakes. I don't think we're at risk from any other obvious disasters. The up-front cost would be kind of steep, but sending 50 GB of new data at a time would be trivial, unlike most online services. With my current DSL link, it'd take at least a week to ship 50 GB of data offsite, and I have ~2 TB in use. Even if I exclude some filesystems, it'd still be a mess. Of course, you have to be on good terms with your neighbors for this to work. Scott On Jan 14, 2008 3:10 PM, Tim Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another free.99 option if you have the extra hardware lying around is boxbackup. http://www.boxbackup.org/ I haven't used it personally, but heard good things. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
On Jan 14, 2008, at 17:15, mike wrote: On 1/14/08, eric kustarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote: www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. mozy's been okay, but only for windows/OS X. uploading can be slow sometimes... i do like rsync.net since it is a totally standards based solution, not proprietary. There's also Amazon's S3. Published APIs so you can use already available utilities / libraries into whatever scripted solution you can think of. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
except in my experience it is piss poor slow... but yes it is another option that is -basically- built on standards (i say that only because it's not really a traditional filesystem concept) On 1/14/08, David Magda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 14, 2008, at 17:15, mike wrote: On 1/14/08, eric kustarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Tim Cook wrote: www.mozy.com appears to have unlimited backups for 4.95 a month. Hard to beat that. And they're owned by EMC now so you know they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. mozy's been okay, but only for windows/OS X. uploading can be slow sometimes... i do like rsync.net since it is a totally standards based solution, not proprietary. There's also Amazon's S3. Published APIs so you can use already available utilities / libraries into whatever scripted solution you can think of. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
OK, this isn't even vaguely ZFS-related, but at least with Mac OS X 10.5 and 10.5.1, be aware that network volumes are unsupported because they don't work right. :-) For instance, http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5918065#5918065 describes one case -- if the Samba destination fills up, Time Machine erases all of its backups. On the other hand, if you don't mind living on the edge, at least for now ... for myself, I tend to be very conservative when it comes to backups. If they don't work when needed, they're not really backups. (And if you aren't testing periodically that you can restore, they aren't really backups. ;-) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] hardware for zfs home storage
Speaking of which, I'm somewhat surprised sun hasn't done similar with zfs and thumpers. You would think they would want some sort of ultimate showcase that way :D Drinking the koolaid and such :) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
