Re: [Zim-wiki] another accessibility question

[Jaap Karssenberg]

The column with both the name of the page and the number of children is
defined in "zim/gui/pageindex.py" line 339 to 350.

This link points directly to that line in the current version:
https://github.com/jaap-karssenberg/zim-desktop-wiki/blob/022bfef5b6d55c84832d5f95d8e3e0b111f53864/zim/gui/pageindex.py#L339

In these lines two gtk cellrenderers are defined and packed into a single
column. As far as I'm aware this is a normal way to use the gtk column, not
a hack or custom widget.

Regards,

Jaap


On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:09 AM Vojtěch Polášek  wrote:

> HI,
>
> could you please point me to a source file where this tree structure is
> defined? I would like to send it to people who understand accessibility
> more than I do.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vojta
>
> Dne 27.4.2017 v 16:50 Jaap Karssenberg napsal(a):
>
> PS deep respect if you are able to navigate the application just by
> hearing. Both myself and my girlfriend tried it out but it is really
> difficult even if you know the application behavior well.
>
>
> Which makes me wondering: how do you get started on a new application,
> when you don't know how it works yet. Just trial and error or do you have
> some other help for that?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jaap
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 14:16 Jaap Karssenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vojta,
>>
>> Just figured out how to enable Orca and gave it a try. I get the same
>> behavior as you, so I can test it.
>>
>> I think something goes wrong because we pack two cellrenders into one
>> column object. Only the text of last one is read out if there are children.
>>
>> Not sure how to fix it. Since this is a normal list formatting for the
>> Gtk toolkit, I suspect there is an interface to indicate what content
>> should be read out. But searching on google, I find very limited
>> information for development of accessible applications in Gtk / Atk.
>>
>> Do you happen to know where to find resources or discussion about adding
>> accessibility hints to Gtk applications from the developer side ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jaap
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM Vojtěch Polášek 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> thank you for fixing previous accessibility problem. However, there is
>>> another problem which was present also in previous stable version.
>>>
>>> It happens when I browse through the tree control representing index. If
>>> I focus on a page which has subpages, my screenreader announces only
>>> number of subpages and not a name of the page. If I focus on a page
>>> which has no subpages, the name is announced correctly.
>>>
>>> Could you please look into this?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Vojta
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net
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>>>
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Re: [Zim-wiki] another accessibility question

[Vojtěch Polášek]

HI,

could you please point me to a source file where this tree structure is
defined? I would like to send it to people who understand accessibility
more than I do.

Thanks,

Vojta


Dne 27.4.2017 v 16:50 Jaap Karssenberg napsal(a):
> PS deep respect if you are able to navigate the application just by
> hearing. Both myself and my girlfriend tried it out but it is really
> difficult even if you know the application behavior well. 
>
> Which makes me wondering: how do you get started on a new application,
> when you don't know how it works yet. Just trial and error or do you
> have some other help for that? 
>
> Regards, 
>
> Jaap 
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 14:16 Jaap Karssenberg
> > wrote:
>
> Hi Vojta,
>
> Just figured out how to enable Orca and gave it a try. I get the
> same behavior as you, so I can test it.
>
> I think something goes wrong because we pack two cellrenders into
> one column object. Only the text of last one is read out if there
> are children.
>
> Not sure how to fix it. Since this is a normal list formatting for
> the Gtk toolkit, I suspect there is an interface to indicate what
> content should be read out. But searching on google, I find very
> limited information for development of accessible applications in
> Gtk / Atk.
>
> Do you happen to know where to find resources or discussion about
> adding accessibility hints to Gtk applications from the developer
> side ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jaap
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM Vojtěch Polášek  > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> thank you for fixing previous accessibility problem. However,
> there is
> another problem which was present also in previous stable version.
>
> It happens when I browse through the tree control representing
> index. If
> I focus on a page which has subpages, my screenreader
> announces only
> number of subpages and not a name of the page. If I focus on a
> page
> which has no subpages, the name is announced correctly.
>
> Could you please look into this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Vojta
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> 
> Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net
> 
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> 
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>

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Re: [Zim-wiki] another accessibility question

[Vojtěch Polášek]

Hi,

first things first. You can try to ask about accessibility of GTK apps
on orca mailing list:

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

I don't know if it will help, but Bleachbit uses also Pygtk and on the
main screen there is a tree controll for selecting thins to delete.
Maybe you can look on their source code. But I personally have never
created GTK applications, I am more into QT, althought its accessibility
is not so good as GTK's, btw.

Now to your second question - yes, when I start some application or the
first time, I usually use TAB to cycle through all elements and I have
to figure what does what. Then I explore menus etc. Usually it works.

I am glad that you still develop this software. I had quite big problem
to find ideal notetaking tool which would be simple enough and offered
enough flexibility.

Best regards,

Vojta





Dne 27.4.2017 v 16:50 Jaap Karssenberg napsal(a):
> PS deep respect if you are able to navigate the application just by
> hearing. Both myself and my girlfriend tried it out but it is really
> difficult even if you know the application behavior well. 
>
> Which makes me wondering: how do you get started on a new application,
> when you don't know how it works yet. Just trial and error or do you
> have some other help for that? 
>
> Regards, 
>
> Jaap 
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 14:16 Jaap Karssenberg
> > wrote:
>
> Hi Vojta,
>
> Just figured out how to enable Orca and gave it a try. I get the
> same behavior as you, so I can test it.
>
> I think something goes wrong because we pack two cellrenders into
> one column object. Only the text of last one is read out if there
> are children.
>
> Not sure how to fix it. Since this is a normal list formatting for
> the Gtk toolkit, I suspect there is an interface to indicate what
> content should be read out. But searching on google, I find very
> limited information for development of accessible applications in
> Gtk / Atk.
>
> Do you happen to know where to find resources or discussion about
> adding accessibility hints to Gtk applications from the developer
> side ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jaap
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM Vojtěch Polášek  > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> thank you for fixing previous accessibility problem. However,
> there is
> another problem which was present also in previous stable version.
>
> It happens when I browse through the tree control representing
> index. If
> I focus on a page which has subpages, my screenreader
> announces only
> number of subpages and not a name of the page. If I focus on a
> page
> which has no subpages, the name is announced correctly.
>
> Could you please look into this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Vojta
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> 
> Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net
> 
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> 
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>

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Re: [Zim-wiki] another accessibility question

[Jaap Karssenberg]

Hi Vojta,

Just figured out how to enable Orca and gave it a try. I get the same
behavior as you, so I can test it.

I think something goes wrong because we pack two cellrenders into one
column object. Only the text of last one is read out if there are children.

Not sure how to fix it. Since this is a normal list formatting for the Gtk
toolkit, I suspect there is an interface to indicate what content should be
read out. But searching on google, I find very limited information for
development of accessible applications in Gtk / Atk.

Do you happen to know where to find resources or discussion about adding
accessibility hints to Gtk applications from the developer side ?

Regards,

Jaap


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:02 PM Vojtěch Polášek  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> thank you for fixing previous accessibility problem. However, there is
> another problem which was present also in previous stable version.
>
> It happens when I browse through the tree control representing index. If
> I focus on a page which has subpages, my screenreader announces only
> number of subpages and not a name of the page. If I focus on a page
> which has no subpages, the name is announced correctly.
>
> Could you please look into this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Vojta
>
>
> ___
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> Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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[Zim-wiki] another accessibility question

[Vojtěch Polášek]

Hello,

thank you for fixing previous accessibility problem. However, there is
another problem which was present also in previous stable version.

It happens when I browse through the tree control representing index. If
I focus on a page which has subpages, my screenreader announces only
number of subpages and not a name of the page. If I focus on a page
which has no subpages, the name is announced correctly.

Could you please look into this?

Thank you,

Vojta


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