RE: [ZION] Conversion
> -Original Message- > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: November 12, 2003 8:38 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] Conversion > > Social club? That was farthest from my mind while I was converting. In > fact, my old church had doughnuts during the Sunday school hour and people > who just sat around talking. Yes, it had degenerated into that. I was > looking for something much more and I found it. > > Stacy. President Hinckley acknowledges the following need for every new convert (and for the rest of us I suppose), a friend, a responsibility and nurturing by the good word of God. To me those are the three things included in Moroni 6:4, where we are numbered (fellowshipped or friendshipped or if your don't mind, socialized) named (which is, for me, a code word for the process of being given a call where our name is read out before the congregation for a sustaining vote) and nourished by the good word of God (which is the teaching and spiritual worship that we enjoy together as "meet together oft" - following on in the next verse or two). Does that mean we are a social club. Well, in a sense yes, but a great deal more than that. President Hinckley recognizes that socialization is necessary as well as the spiritual and service components of the church. Incidentally, one of the reasons given in training that I have received, for the removal of missionary farewells and homecomings is so that the objective of nurturing by the good word of God can be increased and given greater emphasis. The homecoming and farewell model for sacrament meeting tends, very often, to deemphasize gospel topics and focus on individual and family issues that are exclusionary to those not in that family or closely aligned with it. Too many shaggy dog stories about the youngster now called as a missionary and not enough gospel teaching. We get the same counsel about funerals a lot too. Which is one reason that I speak at every funeral I attend in my stake. My point is to try to add some balance between the gospel message and the celebration of the life of the deceased. I started out only speaking when the balance needed to be tipped, in my opinion, but later decided that it could never be too much tipped in favour of the comforting and saving doctrines of the resurrection and redemption through Jesus Christ, so I always have something to say. But the family dinner after the funeral is sometimes as comforting and important as the service and the sermons, so there has to be some socialization, even if that means funeral potatoes instead of doughnuts. Tom > > At 11:17 PM 10/26/2003 +, you wrote: > > > >New converts are not often full-grown in their testimony. They depend > >somewhat on socializing and fellowship to support their faith. > > > >As do we all. > > > -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > // > /// > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Conversion
Social club? That was farthest from my mind while I was converting. In fact, my old church had doughnuts during the Sunday school hour and people who just sat around talking. Yes, it had degenerated into that. I was looking for something much more and I found it. Stacy. At 11:17 PM 10/26/2003 +, you wrote: New converts are not often full-grown in their testimony. They depend somewhat on socializing and fellowship to support their faith. As do we all. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Conversion
I have had problems with my own family also. Stacy. At 02:51 PM 10/26/2003 -0900, you wrote: Jim Cobabe wrote: I am continually wounded by discussions that use family metaphors regarding church fellowship. Over the past decade my family ties have been tested, both bonds with literal blood-relations and fellow saints. Many of the alliances I thought I could depend on came apart in times of trial, and some even turned around to become my personal stumbling-blocks. You just need a new family, Jim. And don't forget, you still have family that have not abandoned you. Seems like I had dinner with them just a few months back. Your point about having the right relationship with God is true, however. Ultimately, we all need a certain degree of self-sufficiency and our own relationship with the Holy Ghost. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior." --Boyd K. Packer === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Conversion
I do not know that he needs a new family, John. He just needs some of them to repent. His dad is my favority uncle and one that shows me great love and concern and I kinow he loves Jim, cause he tells me so. There are some stange ones in our family - as there are in any family. To those who claim differently I say well good for you, but why could not God trust you with the tough ones. We have a few tough ones in the Cobabe clan, but more than enough good to handle the challenges. Don't you agree, Jim George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Conversion > Jim Cobabe wrote: > >I am continually wounded by discussions that use family metaphors > >regarding church fellowship. Over the past decade my family ties have > >been tested, both bonds with literal blood-relations and fellow saints. > >Many of the alliances I thought I could depend on came apart in times of > >trial, and some even turned around to become my personal stumbling-blocks. > > You just need a new family, Jim. And don't forget, you still have family > that have not abandoned you. Seems like I had dinner with them just a few > months back. Your point about having the right relationship with God is > true, however. Ultimately, we all need a certain degree of > self-sufficiency and our own relationship with the Holy Ghost. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve > behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve > behavior." --Boyd K. Packer > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Conversion
Jim Cobabe wrote: I am continually wounded by discussions that use family metaphors regarding church fellowship. Over the past decade my family ties have been tested, both bonds with literal blood-relations and fellow saints. Many of the alliances I thought I could depend on came apart in times of trial, and some even turned around to become my personal stumbling-blocks. You just need a new family, Jim. And don't forget, you still have family that have not abandoned you. Seems like I had dinner with them just a few months back. Your point about having the right relationship with God is true, however. Ultimately, we all need a certain degree of self-sufficiency and our own relationship with the Holy Ghost. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior." --Boyd K. Packer === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
