Re: [Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Andreas Jung]

--On 20. August 2005 16:26:05 -0700 Steve McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Also, the concerns about Solaris were related to poor performance under
Solaris 8 on a multi-Sparc platform. Anybody got any more recent
information that might apply to Solaris 10 or to an Opteron platform?



To make it short: Solaris is not slow by design. The *Sparc*-based hardware 
is fu*cking slow compared to decent PC-based systems. Solaris on i386 
hardware is not slower or faster than compared to Linux. I made some tests 
lately with Plone under Solaris on a PC and the benchmarks (basically using 
ab) were more or less the same as with a comparable PC system (+/- 10%).
So why would one use Solaris? Only when you have the need for reliable 
hardware. Sparc-based hardware is still at least 10 times more stable then 
a cheap PC system ... everything has its price.


-aj

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[Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Steve McMahon]

Brian Sullivan wrote:

...
Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find
yourself with the gun to your head:

http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris




OK -- I get the picture I think ;-)

I will try to dodge the Solaris bullet if I can.


Just for the record, the conclusion of the cited report (once you read 
to the postscript 
) was:


"People really shouldn't be afraid of running python/zope on solaris,
especially in multi-cpu environments, as long as they understand how
python works, because you actually have much better resource control
than pretty well any other O/S out there, but as they say use the right
tool for the job, and make informed decisions ;-)"

Also, the concerns about Solaris were related to poor performance under 
Solaris 8 on a multi-Sparc platform. Anybody got any more recent 
information that might apply to Solaris 10 or to an Opteron platform?


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[Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Brian Sullivan]

> > Dog slow as compared to what?
> 
> As compared to commodity server-class Linux/Intel hardware (which will
> cost you around 1/4 to 1/3 what the "equivalent" Solaris rig does).
> 
> > I would prefer to do the absolute
> > minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and
> > otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing
> > and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server
> > with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003
> > machine with appropriate memory.
> 
> Let's put it this way:  even if you get paid in cheese sandwiches, it
> will be cheaper to buy a 1U lintel box to run the server than the time
> you spend trying to figure out why it is so slow on Solaris, let alone
> the time you spend trying to remediate it.  Unless somebody has a gun to
> your head, you should not run Zope on Solaris in *any*
> performance-critical environment.
> 
> FWIW, I offered once to *buy* the 1U for the client if it didn't smoke
> their big-iron Solaris box;  they declined to take me up on it (but
> still went ahead and used Solaris, because that was what made the SAs
> feel warm-n-fuzzy).
> 
> Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find
> yourself with the gun to your head:
> 
>  http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris


OK -- I get the picture I think ;-)

I will try to dodge the Solaris bullet if I can.
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[Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Tres Seaver]

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Brian Sullivan wrote:
From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun
>>>server. Is that assumption correct.
>>>
>>>Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions--
>>>like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special
>>>issues/requirements?
>>
>>Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on
>>Solaris.  The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the
>>Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded
>>Python applications.
>>
> 
> Dog slow as compared to what?

As compared to commodity server-class Linux/Intel hardware (which will
cost you around 1/4 to 1/3 what the "equivalent" Solaris rig does).

> I would prefer to do the absolute
> minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and
> otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing
> and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server
> with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003
> machine with appropriate memory.

Let's put it this way:  even if you get paid in cheese sandwiches, it
will be cheaper to buy a 1U lintel box to run the server than the time
you spend trying to figure out why it is so slow on Solaris, let alone
the time you spend trying to remediate it.  Unless somebody has a gun to
your head, you should not run Zope on Solaris in *any*
performance-critical environment.

FWIW, I offered once to *buy* the 1U for the client if it didn't smoke
their big-iron Solaris box;  they declined to take me up on it (but
still went ahead and used Solaris, because that was what made the SAs
feel warm-n-fuzzy).

Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find
yourself with the gun to your head:

 http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris


Tres.
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[Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Brian Sullivan]

> >>From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun
> > server. Is that assumption correct.
> >
> > Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions--
> > like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special
> > issues/requirements?
> 
> Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on
> Solaris.  The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the
> Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded
> Python applications.
> 


Dog slow as compared to what? I would prefer to do the absolute
minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and
otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing
and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server
with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003
machine with appropriate memory.


> I would recommend running multiple appserver processes, each with a
> single "worker" thread, rather than trying to run a truly multi-threaded
> appserver;  you will then need to load balance them (e.g., with Pound).
> 

I am not exactly sure what you are saying -- is this something to be
done at the Zope end or with Solaris knowledge or both?
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[Zope] Re: Zope on Solaris

[Tres Seaver]

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Hash: SHA1

Brian Sullivan wrote:

>>From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun
> server. Is that assumption correct.
> 
> Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions--
> like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special
> issues/requirements?

Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on
Solaris.  The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the
Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded
Python applications.

I would recommend running multiple appserver processes, each with a
single "worker" thread, rather than trying to run a truly multi-threaded
appserver;  you will then need to load balance them (e.g., with Pound).


Tres.
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Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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