Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-26 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, One issue I have with using paste deploy's pipeline configuration for endware is that such configuration sometimes really wants to be part of a library. I.e. I don't want to configure a tower of endwares each time I write an application, I want to reuse some premade configuration

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-26 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Chris Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Tres http://plope.com/whatsitdoing2 This is why zope.pipeline is such an important effort to me. Not that it will immediately make things better, but it would hopefully open up a path to move

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-26 Thread Martijn Faassen
Chris McDonough wrote: [snip] While I think that would be a good thing, I do want to mention that it's not really the point of the whatsitdoing benchmark. Right, agreed. I think it's more important to make the Zope Framework more comprehensible than it is to improve its performance. Its

[Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Hi all, I've put up a draft of a zope.pipeline proposal: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopePipeline The proposal is intended to explain my thoughts on the subject more thoroughly. Shane ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Dan Korostelev wrote: Also, how easy is to integrate existing non-zopeish WSGI middlewares into the zope.pipeline? Like some resource injectors or XHTML slimmers and so on. It would be really great to be able to do that with single ZCML directive. You can do that with two ZCML directives. I

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Dan Korostelev
2009/2/25 Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com: One area that I'd like to see support for is some easy way to turn off security proxies. It's rumored there is such a way but with Grok, we ended up ripping them off repeatedly anyway. Am I right in that it should be possible to put a WSGI

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Shane Betreff: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal Hi all, I've put up a draft of a zope.pipeline proposal: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopePipeline The proposal is intended to explain my thoughts on the subject

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Roger Ineichen wrote: Do you know something about the performance of WSGI? I whould be happy to see some perfomance tests comparing WSGI with other server concepts. WSGI is extremely lightweight, so WSGI itself isn't going to affect performance. The WSGI servers I know about are reasonably

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Hanno Schlichting
Shane Hathaway wrote: Roger Ineichen wrote: Do you know something about the performance of WSGI? I whould be happy to see some perfomance tests comparing WSGI with other server concepts. WSGI is extremely lightweight, so WSGI itself isn't going to affect performance. The WSGI servers I

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Shane Hathaway wrote: Dan Korostelev wrote: Also, how easy is to integrate existing non-zopeish WSGI middlewares into the zope.pipeline? Like some resource injectors or XHTML slimmers and so on. It would be really great to be able to do that with single ZCML directive. You can do that with

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tres Seaver wrote: Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Shane Betreff: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal Hi all, I've put up a draft of a zope.pipeline proposal: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopePipeline The proposal is intended to explain my thoughts

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Martin Aspeli wrote: I'm used to using Paste Deploy ini files to configure a WSGI pipeline. Is this simply an alternative to that? If so, do we really need our own alternative, or could we try to use the Paste Deploy stuff directly? Yes, you can just use Paste Deploy instead of the

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] In general, if you need full-on backward compatibility with the existing behavior of Zope2 / Zope3 / Grok, switching to a paste-driven WSGI pipeline doesn't gain you much speed (but it is not a loss, either). If, for a given application, you can relax the BBB

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Hanno Schlichting wrote: What's the overhead of a WSGI middleware? Is the overhead cost in the same order of magnitude as a simple function call with a return value or is there something inherently more complex going on? A WSGI middleware app is simply a callable thing that calls the next

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Shane Hathaway wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: [snip] create_request -- should this maybe have some compatibility with WebOb requests? I've looked at WebOb, and my impression is that Zope requests and WebOb requests serve completely different purposes. A Zope request is essentially

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi all Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal Hey, Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] In general, if you need full-on backward compatibility with the existing behavior of Zope2 / Zope3 / Grok, switching to a paste-driven WSGI pipeline doesn't gain you much speed

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi all Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal Hey, Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] In general, if you need full-on backward compatibility with the existing behavior of Zope2 / Zope3 / Grok, switching to a paste

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Tres http://plope.com/whatsitdoing2 This is why zope.pipeline is such an important effort to me. Not that it will immediately make things better, but it would hopefully open up a path to move the Zope Framework forward in this area. I absolutly agree! As far as I can

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Martin Aspeli
Shane Hathaway wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: I'm used to using Paste Deploy ini files to configure a WSGI pipeline. Is this simply an alternative to that? If so, do we really need our own alternative, or could we try to use the Paste Deploy stuff directly? Yes, you can just use Paste Deploy

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Shane Hathaway wrote: Roger Ineichen wrote: Do you know something about the performance of WSGI? I whould be happy to see some perfomance tests comparing WSGI with other server concepts. WSGI is extremely lightweight, so WSGI itself isn't going to affect

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Martin Aspeli wrote: Shane Hathaway wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: clean_transaction -- is this not the same as repoze.tm2? No. To mimic the current Zope publisher, we need to commit the transaction shortly after the call application is finished, but then a lot of things can still happen

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.pipeline proposal

2009-02-25 Thread Chris McDonough
Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Tres http://plope.com/whatsitdoing2 This is why zope.pipeline is such an important effort to me. Not that it will immediately make things better, but it would hopefully open up a path to move the Zope Framework forward in this area. I absolutly agree! As