[Zope-dev] Re: paver: buildout is utterly doomed
Christian Theune wrote: Hi, On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 01:10:19PM +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm on the fence on this one. I think as long as the site *says* it's affiliated with the Zope project, the Zope community and the foundation, we're fine. You can argue both directions here: we might even *help* send the message to people that the Zope community is actually serious about providing stuff useful to outsiders. I propose we let the naming discussion rest for now given the arguments have been made. The most important thing is the creation of a website. Agreed. I still have the feeling we should spend time getting our story straight. For example: Why is zc.buildout a Zope project? The new site starts talking about the Zope libraries which people started getting confused about. When is something Zope? My attempt at straightening the story is here: http://zode01.lovelysystems.com/projects If people disagree with that story, let's start a new thread and talk about it. Fast. I'm not sure zc.buildout really is a Zope project at all. It's a Jim project, not a Zope project. However, it is largely maintained and used by the Zope community and we may have a decent place to put it and give it at least its own logo and some documentation space. If someone wants to build a separate website for zc.buildout, then that'd be great, but if the new zope.org lowers the impedance, I'd be happy to have a folder for it there. :) Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: paver: buildout is utterly doomed
Kent Tenney wrote: From Kevin's blog http://www.blueskyonmars.com/2008/04/22/paver-and-the-building-distribution-deployment-etc-of-python-projects/ (http://tinyurl.com/68sz6u) Very interesting. I hadn't seen that. I wonder *how* it is using buildout's machinery. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: paver: buildout is utterly doomed
Martijn Faassen wrote: Kent Tenney wrote: From Kevin's blog http://www.blueskyonmars.com/2008/04/22/paver-and-the-building-distribution-deployment-etc-of-python-projects/ (http://tinyurl.com/68sz6u) Very interesting. I hadn't seen that. I wonder *how* it is using buildout's machinery. Ah, the blog entry answers that question: But, its support for the various libraries is quite shallow right now, and zc.buildout/virtualenv are not at all represented yet. I haven't thought about this deeply yet, but I actually see the declarative style that buildout enforces as an advantage. I've seen enough setup.py files with all kinds of custom Python hacks to try to make things work to be wary of such approaches. In addition, buildout makes you create recipes, and recipes are, at least in potential, reusable. Reusable things can help breed community. Snippets of Python don't breed community. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: paver: buildout is utterly doomed
Martijn Faassen wrote: You Can Save Buildout! So, who is up to make a nice clean looking website and a few tutorials for buildout? It needs a website. Buildout has been around for a few years without a proper website already, Paver for 5 minutes and it's got one. I'm not going to do it, but someone should. IMHO, we could feasibly fit this into http://zode01.lovelysystems.com/projects if someone wants to own the content and the Zope Foundation doesn't mind. If people prefer it to be separate, that'd be fine of course. I think it'd take: - a quick overview - an install guide - a couple of deeper examples - a few pages of documentation Just to be sure, I certainly *won't* be doing this. Jim won't either, and I don't expect it from him. Let him write great code, not make websites. So don't sit back and hope someone else will do it, as they won't. This is all too true and goes for the zope.org revitilisation efforts too. I've promised to help shepherd and provide infrastructure, but we need people to write content now. :) If nobody else can bother to step up, Paver probably deserves to win. If you're intereested, I think we already have a nice buildout for deploying grok.zope.org that can probably be adapted. The repoze people have a nice site too, so you could go ask there. The Paver site seems based on the doc generation thing that the new docs on python.org use. Alternatively we start to figure out how to convert our buildouts to Paver. :) I'd argue that the build system isn't quite as important as all that. We should ensure our packages work properly any setuptools-capable environment. Building and deployment will always be project-specific to a certain extent. However, I think we (including Plone) have a lot vested in zc.buildout and I think it is worth presenting it in the proper way. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: paver: buildout is utterly doomed
The Paver site seems based on the doc generation thing that the new docs on python.org use. Sphinx is the doc generation thing, it's really nice, takes ReST files and creates TOC, indexes, provides search, all from an attractive front page. If a tiny bit of markup was added to the existing ReST files in zc.buildout and massaged by Sphinx, the result would be useful and accessable doc. Alternatively we start to figure out how to convert our buildouts to Paver. :) I'd argue that the build system isn't quite as important as all that. We should ensure our packages work properly any setuptools-capable environment. Building and deployment will always be project-specific to a certain extent. However, I think we (including Plone) have a lot vested in zc.buildout and I think it is worth presenting it in the proper way. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
