Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday, July 13, 2010, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 What do others think about this?

Based on what you wrote, I think this is the right solution. Python 2.4 is 
clearly important to the Zope 2 / Plone world.

Regards,
Stephan
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Stephan Richter
srich...@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu wrote:
 On Tuesday, July 13, 2010, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 What do others think about this?

 Based on what you wrote, I think this is the right solution. Python 2.4 is
 clearly important to the Zope 2 / Plone world.

Actually both Zope2 and Plone 4 (as a potential user of the ZTK) are
requiring Python 2.6 and don't even support Python 2.5 anymore.

It's BlueBream and direct ZTK consumers that asked for the Python 2.4
support ;-)

Anyways we decided to keep Python 2.4 for a ZTK release and codified
that at http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/python-versions.html

Hanno
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Charlie Clark
Am 13.07.2010, 14:12 Uhr, schrieb Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu:

 What do others think about this?

Hanno,

what's the time frame for ZTK 1.0?

 From your previous mail there were three packages with test failures on  
2.7. But I thought these were fixed?


I fixed all of those and released new versions. bin/test-ztk should
now pass under Python 2.7.


Have I missed a mail with more failures? I would have thought getting  
those tests to pass for a release is a reasonable aim.

Charlie
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German Office
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Charlie Clark
charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 what's the time frame for ZTK 1.0?

I put that info into the post scriptum of my mail.

 Have I missed a mail with more failures? I would have thought getting
 those tests to pass for a release is a reasonable aim.

You have. It's only bin/test-ztk that passes. bin/test-zopeapp still
has a number of failures.

Hanno
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Tres Seaver
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Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Charlie Clark
 charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 what's the time frame for ZTK 1.0?
 
 I put that info into the post scriptum of my mail.
 
 Have I missed a mail with more failures? I would have thought getting
 those tests to pass for a release is a reasonable aim.
 
 You have. It's only bin/test-ztk that passes. bin/test-zopeapp still
 has a number of failures.

There is also the zope.testing failure where a doctest tries to drive
the pdb module:  2.7 added a new intermediate (private) method to the
call stack in unittest's 'assertEqual', which causes that test to fail.


Tres.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/13/2010 02:12 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for
 a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to
 support 2.7 in addition.

+1

For Zope standards we'd still be very fast with supporting Python 2.7 if 
we do this (assuming 1.1 will be out before, say, 2012 :).

Regards,

Martijn


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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Hanno Schlichting
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote:
 Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for
 a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to
 support 2.7 in addition.

We discussed this in todays zope-dev IRC meeting. There was general
support for this approach.

The 1.1 release should follow the 1.0 release rather soon in this case.

I'll bring it up in the release team.

Thanks all,
Hanno
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Christian Zagrodnick
On 2010-07-13 14:12:01 +0200, Hanno Schlichting said:

 Hi.
 
 We have Python 2.7 final now and some work has begun on making ZTK
 packages compatible with it. Currently we still see various test
 failures in the zopeapp set though and nobody who steps up to fix
 them.
 
 Apart from that, we have made a promise to support Python 2.4 up to
 2.6 for the ZTK 1.0 release. The ZODB 3.10 releases do no longer
 support Python 2.4 but require 2.5. The ZODB 3.9.x releases are in
 maintenance mode for a while and currently don't support Python 2.7. I
 doubt that we can get official 2.7 support for the 3.9.x release line.
 
 Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for
 a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to
 support 2.7 in addition.

Yes, ZTK 1.0 should become stable/released soon. Adding a new Python 
version or removing one, doesn't help.

But I really want to see Python 2.7 support rather soon. So how do we 
actually proceed there? Even after ZTK 1.0 is out, how is the 
transition made to 1.1? I suppose there could be a 1.0.1 at the same 
time as a 1.1.0.

Regards,
-- 
Christian Zagrodnick · c...@gocept.com
gocept gmbh  co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 4 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development


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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Tres Seaver
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Hash: SHA1

Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
 On 2010-07-13 14:12:01 +0200, Hanno Schlichting said:
 
 Hi.

 We have Python 2.7 final now and some work has begun on making ZTK
 packages compatible with it. Currently we still see various test
 failures in the zopeapp set though and nobody who steps up to fix
 them.

 Apart from that, we have made a promise to support Python 2.4 up to
 2.6 for the ZTK 1.0 release. The ZODB 3.10 releases do no longer
 support Python 2.4 but require 2.5. The ZODB 3.9.x releases are in
 maintenance mode for a while and currently don't support Python 2.7. I
 doubt that we can get official 2.7 support for the 3.9.x release line.

 Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for
 a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to
 support 2.7 in addition.
 
 Yes, ZTK 1.0 should become stable/released soon. Adding a new Python 
 version or removing one, doesn't help.
 
 But I really want to see Python 2.7 support rather soon. So how do we 
 actually proceed there? Even after ZTK 1.0 is out, how is the 
 transition made to 1.1? I suppose there could be a 1.0.1 at the same 
 time as a 1.1.0.

As soon as we get to 1.0b1, the release team will make a 'branches/1.0'
branch for stabilization, and the trunk can then be updated to drop 2.4
support and add 2.7 support.


Tres.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Christian Zagrodnick
On 2010-07-13 20:37:42 +0200, Tres Seaver said:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
 On 2010-07-13 14:12:01 +0200, Hanno Schlichting said:
 
 Hi.
 
 We have Python 2.7 final now and some work has begun on making ZTK
 packages compatible with it. Currently we still see various test
 failures in the zopeapp set though and nobody who steps up to fix
 them.
 
 Apart from that, we have made a promise to support Python 2.4 up to
 2.6 for the ZTK 1.0 release. The ZODB 3.10 releases do no longer
 support Python 2.4 but require 2.5. The ZODB 3.9.x releases are in
 maintenance mode for a while and currently don't support Python 2.7. I
 doubt that we can get official 2.7 support for the 3.9.x release line.
 
 Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for
 a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to
 support 2.7 in addition.
 
 Yes, ZTK 1.0 should become stable/released soon. Adding a new Python
 version or removing one, doesn't help.
 
 But I really want to see Python 2.7 support rather soon. So how do we
 actually proceed there? Even after ZTK 1.0 is out, how is the
 transition made to 1.1? I suppose there could be a 1.0.1 at the same
 time as a 1.1.0.
 
 As soon as we get to 1.0b1, the release team will make a 'branches/1.0'
 branch for stabilization, and the trunk can then be updated to drop 2.4
 support and add 2.7 support.

Actually I was thinking about the individual packages. I assume 
dropping Python 2.4 should bump the respective package version at least 
from 1.x.y to 1.x+1.0, right?

-- 
Christian Zagrodnick · c...@gocept.com
gocept gmbh  co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 4 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development


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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Charlie Clark
Am 13.07.2010, 20:48 Uhr, schrieb Christian Zagrodnick c...@gocept.com:

 Actually I was thinking about the individual packages. I assume
 dropping Python 2.4 should bump the respective package version at least
 from 1.x.y to 1.x+1.0, right?

ZTK 1.1 will officially not support Python  2.6 but it won't seek to  
actively break 2.4 and 2.5.

It sounds like you are suggesting what to do about packages that  
definitely don't work with  2.6. While I would have thought a syntax  
change shouldn't mean a major version, breaking compatibility obviously  
warrants some thought. But then I wouldn't expect a release just based on  
new syntax. Have you got a specific example in mind?

Charlie
-- 
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Managing Director
Clark Consulting  Research
German Office
Helmholtzstr. 20
Düsseldorf
D- 40215
Tel: +49-211-600-3657
Mobile: +49-178-782-6226
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Marius Gedminas
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:01:35AM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
 Hanno Schlichting wrote:
  On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Charlie Clark
  charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
  what's the time frame for ZTK 1.0?
  
  I put that info into the post scriptum of my mail.
  
  Have I missed a mail with more failures? I would have thought getting
  those tests to pass for a release is a reasonable aim.
  
  You have. It's only bin/test-ztk that passes. bin/test-zopeapp still
  has a number of failures.
 
 There is also the zope.testing failure where a doctest tries to drive
 the pdb module:  2.7 added a new intermediate (private) method to the
 call stack in unittest's 'assertEqual', which causes that test to fail.

That shouldn't be too difficult to fix; zope.testing already uses quite
a few regexp-based renormalizers to hide traceback elements that differ
in different Python versions.

(Debugging those is a pain, though.)

Marius Gedminas
-- 
http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3 consulting and development


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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Tres Seaver
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Hash: SHA1

Marius Gedminas wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:01:35AM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
 Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Charlie Clark
 charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 what's the time frame for ZTK 1.0?
 I put that info into the post scriptum of my mail.

 Have I missed a mail with more failures? I would have thought getting
 those tests to pass for a release is a reasonable aim.
 You have. It's only bin/test-ztk that passes. bin/test-zopeapp still
 has a number of failures.
 There is also the zope.testing failure where a doctest tries to drive
 the pdb module:  2.7 added a new intermediate (private) method to the
 call stack in unittest's 'assertEqual', which causes that test to fail.
 
 That shouldn't be too difficult to fix; zope.testing already uses quite
 a few regexp-based renormalizers to hide traceback elements that differ
 in different Python versions.
 
 (Debugging those is a pain, though.)

Can't be renormalized, as the pdb session requires sending an extra 'u'
to get to the expected stack frame (it's a dumb test, FWIW).


Tres.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Tres Seaver
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Charlie Clark wrote:
 Am 13.07.2010, 20:48 Uhr, schrieb Christian Zagrodnick c...@gocept.com:
 
 Actually I was thinking about the individual packages. I assume
 dropping Python 2.4 should bump the respective package version at least
 from 1.x.y to 1.x+1.0, right?
 
 ZTK 1.1 will officially not support Python  2.6 but it won't seek to  
 actively break 2.4 and 2.5.
 
 It sounds like you are suggesting what to do about packages that  
 definitely don't work with  2.6. While I would have thought a syntax  
 change shouldn't mean a major version, breaking compatibility obviously  
 warrants some thought. But then I wouldn't expect a release just based on  
 new syntax. Have you got a specific example in mind?

I would say that a release of a ZTK package which drops support for a
Python version still supported by ZTK 1.0.x should get a second-level
version bump:  that is the best possible signal that it is not a
candidate for inclusion in ZTK 1.0.x+1.


Tres.
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