Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-27 Thread Chris Withers

Martijn Faassen wrote:
Ah, I thought we had no Apache, but if there's an Apache, then yes, that 
would be a good place to start sticking up some flat files. The first 
incaranation of the foundation site will be flat files so that'd be a 
good start.


My only worry is that poor little box does a lot of work (svn, cvs, 
lists, etc)...


cheers,

Chris

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Yeah, it does - but serving up static files isn't going to make it strain
anymore then it does

A


On 9/27/06 3:54 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Martijn Faassen wrote:
 Ah, I thought we had no Apache, but if there's an Apache, then yes, that
 would be a good place to start sticking up some flat files. The first
 incaranation of the foundation site will be flat files so that'd be a
 good start.
 
 My only worry is that poor little box does a lot of work (svn, cvs,
 lists, etc)...
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-26 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:


On Sep 25, 2006, at 1:12 PM, Chris Withers wrote:


Jim Fulton wrote:
the machine that goes by many names, including svn.zope.org, 
cvs.zope.org, and mail.zope.org.


I think I'm right in saying that this poor box does have apache on it 
and so might not be such a bad place to stick the foundation stuff if 
it is just flat files?


Good point.


Ah, I thought we had no Apache, but if there's an Apache, then yes, that 
would be a good place to start sticking up some flat files. The first 
incaranation of the foundation site will be flat files so that'd be a 
good start.


Regards,

Martijn

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-26 Thread Martijn Faassen

Lennart Regebro wrote:

On 9/25/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Yes, this is something Jim actually just proposed as well.


OK, super. Didn't see that.


Sorry, that's because he said it just to me. :)

Regards,

Martijn


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Hey,

I missed this so I'm very happy Jens cc-ed this onto this list.

 Incidentally I'd like to float the idea of moving zopewiki to (some
 incarnation of) zope.org. Eg put it at zope.org/wiki

 +1 on the idea, it wouldn't even have to be in the same Zope instance,
 rewrite rules can do the stitching-in.

 I'd assume this is more of a foundation decision, though?

Consider this a foundation decision, let's do it. zope.org/wiki is the 
way to go.


Separate instance with rewrite rules sounds a good plan to me.

Jens, do you have enough zope.org fu to get this set up? Right now the 
whole zope.org is technically a complete unknown to me. Right now the 
implementation is the only thing stopping this from going ahead. :)


Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 25 Sep 2006, at 12:05, Martijn Faassen wrote:

 Incidentally I'd like to float the idea of moving zopewiki to (some
 incarnation of) zope.org. Eg put it at zope.org/wiki

 +1 on the idea, it wouldn't even have to be in the same Zope  
instance,

 rewrite rules can do the stitching-in.

 I'd assume this is more of a foundation decision, though?

Consider this a foundation decision, let's do it. zope.org/wiki is  
the way to go.


Separate instance with rewrite rules sounds a good plan to me.

Jens, do you have enough zope.org fu to get this set up? Right now  
the whole zope.org is technically a complete unknown to me. Right  
now the implementation is the only thing stopping this from going  
ahead. :)


Unfortunately all the pieces above Zope, like rewrite setups, are  
out of reach and only accessible by ZC. I believe there's Squid in  
front, and the rewrites are handled by a rewriter process.


Additionally, there is no good information about the appserver tier,  
either. I was under the impression there were two, but when I tried  
to access them both I thought I always ended up on one and the same  
host.


I don't know what the schedule is for the foundation to start hosting  
this, but I'd argue for starting the systems setup from scratch and  
adding new settings then.


jens

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
[snip]
I don't know what the schedule is for the foundation to start hosting 
this, but I'd argue for starting the systems setup from scratch and 
adding new settings then.


We don't have a schedule yet. I agree that doing a systems setup with 
community-understood components will be something we'll have to do at 
some point.


I would like to be able to get things going before we redo the whole 
hosting infrastructure, though... How much work do you think it would be 
to set up the current zope.org on a new system?


Regards,

Martijn

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Andrew Sawyers wrote:

This is all documented in subversion IIRC.  Jim will know.


We need to make sure there are people in the foundation (besides Jim and 
ZC) who know. I'll ask Jim.


Regards,

Martijn

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 25 Sep 2006, at 14:31, Andrew Sawyers wrote:

If it is simply taking what's running and set it up on a new set of  
servers,
it would be fairly trivial.  There's 1 or 2 zeo client servers.   
There's a
storage server.  There's cvs/svn and mail and ldap lives some where  
in that

mix.  :)  That's about it.


That's not trivial by any stretch of the imagination...  If you  
wanted to rebuild that whole infrastructure you're be siting there a  
couple days I'd think.


I don't know if there are (working) automated buildouts, if there  
aren't then the only way to get a working ZEO client quickly would be  
to copy a complete instance, file by file, from the old system and  
then recompile anything that is compiled.


jens



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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Read what I wrote.  :)
A


On 9/25/06 8:38 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 On 25 Sep 2006, at 14:31, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 
 If it is simply taking what's running and set it up on a new set of
 servers,
 it would be fairly trivial.  There's 1 or 2 zeo client servers.
 There's a
 storage server.  There's cvs/svn and mail and ldap lives some where
 in that
 mix.  :)  That's about it.
 
 That's not trivial by any stretch of the imagination...  If you
 wanted to rebuild that whole infrastructure you're be siting there a
 couple days I'd think.
 
 I don't know if there are (working) automated buildouts, if there
 aren't then the only way to get a working ZEO client quickly would be
 to copy a complete instance, file by file, from the old system and
 then recompile anything that is compiled.
 
 jens
 
 
 
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 81QmOI3B5/1CIYaK56YaW1w=
 =MVJU
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 25 Sep 2006, at 15:39, Andrew Sawyers wrote:


Read what I wrote.  :)



I read what you wrote and I do not think it is trivial.

jens


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Lennart Regebro

On 9/25/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I read what you wrote and I do not think it is trivial.


I agree.  I'd guess that for somebody that knows the LDAP software
better than me, it might take a day or two. That's not trivial. It's
also not hard. I'd call it ehm, Not too hard. :-)

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
There's a lot more to it then LDAP.  LDAP doesn't make it hard, it just
makes it harder.
The goal (or lack thereof) will make it hard or trivial.  Regardless, I
didn't say rebuilding everything from scratch and sorting out the 'mess'.  I
said if it's just resetting up on a different group of servers.

Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard.  :)

A


On 9/25/06 9:56 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9/25/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read what you wrote and I do not think it is trivial.
 
 I agree.  I'd guess that for somebody that knows the LDAP software
 better than me, it might take a day or two. That's not trivial. It's
 also not hard. I'd call it ehm, Not too hard. :-)


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 9/25/06 10:04 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9/25/06, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There's a lot more to it then LDAP.  LDAP doesn't make it hard
 
 For me it does. That's why I said somebody that knows it better than me. :-)
 
 Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard.  :)
 
 Not that hard sounds like a reasonable compromise. :-)
 Now, when we agree that this is not that hard do we think we should do it?
Not sure, what's the goal?  :)

The reason it should be done, would be to improve the underlying hardware.
The other reason would be so that the community can manage all aspects of
it's setup.  If it's still like it was, then parts of the architecture are
not going to be accessible by anyone in the community.  If I were doing it,
I would put as little effort into the existing setup as possible and all
effort into where it's going.

 Personally, I don't care where www.zope.org is currently located, and
 I also think we should replace it part by part with microsites, like
 wiki.zope.org, bugs.zope.org, news.zope.org, products.zope.org and so
 on, until www.zope.org gets useless, and we can move it to
 old.zope.org and replace it with a new snazzy front-page, linking to
 all the other sites.
That's easily done with rewrite rules at the cache.

Andrew




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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Lennart Regebro

On 9/25/06, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The reason it should be done, would be to improve the underlying hardware.
The other reason would be so that the community can manage all aspects of
it's setup.  If it's still like it was, then parts of the architecture are
not going to be accessible by anyone in the community.  If I were doing it,
I would put as little effort into the existing setup as possible and all
effort into where it's going.


I totaly agree with that.

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Lennart Regebro wrote:

On 9/25/06, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The reason it should be done, would be to improve the underlying 
hardware. The other reason would be so that the community can

manage all aspects of it's setup.  If it's still like it was, then
parts of the architecture are not going to be accessible by anyone
in the community.  If I were doing it, I would put as little effort
into the existing setup as possible and all effort into where it's
going.


I totaly agree with that.



Me too. I'm trying to figure out how to get from here to there. 
Preferably I just let zope.org be what it is, and surround it with stuff 
that runs from new instances, either as foo.zope.org or zope.org/foo.


We have several candidates to run from other instances:

Particular applications:

planet.zope.org
wiki.zope.org

Fairly simple websites, at least to start out, later we can move to CMS:

www.zope.org/foundation
www.zope.org/zope3

and whatever our projects infrastructure will be like:

big projects:

www.zope.org/projects/cmf
www.zope.org/projects/zc.buildout

and smaller projects:

www.zope.org/projects/zc.resourcelibrary
www.zope.org/projects/zc.table

Regards,

Martijn

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
We just need to resurface the svn location of the doc and update if
necessary.

A


On 9/25/06 11:18 AM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Martijn Faassen wrote:
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 This is all documented in subversion IIRC.  Jim will know.
 
 We need to make sure there are people in the foundation (besides Jim and
 ZC) who know. I'll ask Jim.
 
 Actually strike out 'foundation' and read 'community' in the line above.
 
 Regards,
 
 Martijn
 


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Jim Fulton


On Sep 25, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:


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Hash: SHA1


On 25 Sep 2006, at 12:05, Martijn Faassen wrote:

 Incidentally I'd like to float the idea of moving zopewiki to (some
 incarnation of) zope.org. Eg put it at zope.org/wiki

 +1 on the idea, it wouldn't even have to be in the same Zope  
instance,

 rewrite rules can do the stitching-in.

 I'd assume this is more of a foundation decision, though?

Consider this a foundation decision, let's do it. zope.org/wiki is  
the way to go.


Separate instance with rewrite rules sounds a good plan to me.

Jens, do you have enough zope.org fu to get this set up? Right now  
the whole zope.org is technically a complete unknown to me. Right  
now the implementation is the only thing stopping this from going  
ahead. :)


Unfortunately all the pieces above Zope, like rewrite setups, are  
out of reach and only accessible by ZC.


Right.


I believe there's Squid in front, and the rewrites are handled by a  
rewriter process.


Yup.

Additionally, there is no good information about the appserver  
tier, either. I was under the impression there were two, but when I  
tried to access them both I thought I always ended up on one and  
the same host.


There are 4 instances running on two hosts.  There is a storage/LDAP  
server.  There is a pool of squid servers and load balancers. There  
is the machine that goes by many names, including svn.zope.org,  
cvs.zope.org, and mail.zope.org.  The squid servers are load  
balancers are shared with our commercial customers.


Jim

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Andrew Sawyers wrote:

We just need to resurface the svn location of the doc and update if
necessary.


Working on getting it.

Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Lennart Regebro

On 9/25/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Unfortunately all the pieces above Zope, like rewrite setups, are
 out of reach and only accessible by ZC.

Right.


So... A minimum change would be to move name servering to somewhere
controlled by ZF?

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Martijn Faassen

Lennart Regebro wrote:

On 9/25/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Unfortunately all the pieces above Zope, like rewrite setups, are
 out of reach and only accessible by ZC.

Right.


So... A minimum change would be to move name servering to somewhere
controlled by ZF?


Yes, this is something Jim actually just proposed as well.

Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Lennart Regebro

On 9/25/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Yes, this is something Jim actually just proposed as well.


OK, super. Didn't see that.

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Chris Withers

Jim Fulton wrote:


the machine that goes by many names, including svn.zope.org, 
cvs.zope.org, and mail.zope.org.


I think I'm right in saying that this poor box does have apache on it 
and so might not be such a bad place to stick the foundation stuff if it 
is just flat files?


cheers,

Chris

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Jim Fulton


On Sep 25, 2006, at 1:12 PM, Chris Withers wrote:


Jim Fulton wrote:
the machine that goes by many names, including svn.zope.org,  
cvs.zope.org, and mail.zope.org.


I think I'm right in saying that this poor box does have apache on  
it and so might not be such a bad place to stick the foundation  
stuff if it is just flat files?


Good point.

Jim

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-23 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 23 Sep 2006, at 20:38, Simon Michael wrote:
Incidentally I'd like to float the idea of moving zopewiki to (some  
incarnation of) zope.org. Eg put it at zope.org/wiki and merge the  
links from http://www.zope.org/Wikis/FrontPage . A zwiki product  
upgrade would be needed. I'm cc'ing the websites group/list (and  
tried to set followup-to there, but I use gmane so we'll see what  
happens..)


+1 on the idea, it wouldn't even have to be in the same Zope  
instance, rewrite rules can do the stitching-in.


I'd assume this is more of a foundation decision, though?

jens

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-23 Thread Lennart Regebro

I'm +1 too, but think we can call it wiki.zope.org.

On 9/23/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 23 Sep 2006, at 20:38, Simon Michael wrote:
 Incidentally I'd like to float the idea of moving zopewiki to (some
 incarnation of) zope.org. Eg put it at zope.org/wiki and merge the
 links from http://www.zope.org/Wikis/FrontPage . A zwiki product
 upgrade would be needed. I'm cc'ing the websites group/list (and
 tried to set followup-to there, but I use gmane so we'll see what
 happens..)

+1 on the idea, it wouldn't even have to be in the same Zope
instance, rewrite rules can do the stitching-in.

I'd assume this is more of a foundation decision, though?

jens

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