Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB (redux)
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 01:49:07PM -0400, Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 12:50, Brian Sutherland wrote: Reading this thread made me want to try out some stuff: � � http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-January/021612.html So I've made a jinty-zodbless branch of the trunk and want to ask for comment on some of the design decisions I've made there before I spend a lot of time writing tests/examples and generally fixing things. The actual change is: � � http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-checkins/2007-April/029097.html I think this looks good. The only concern I have is with the term IResourceFactory, since it already has a meaning in Zope 3. On the other hand, this is a very different component, so you should be fine. Ok, I'm mostly done with what I wanted to do on that branch. I want to give people a chance to review it (feel free to commit directly to the branch) so I'll leave it on the branch for about 2 weeks before trying to merge it to the trunk. I think that an added bonus would be to provide a demo on how to hook up an ORM to this new setup. I added a zodb.app.zodbless module to the branch which is an example of a non-zodb zope3 app setup. I probably won't merge zodb.app.zodbless to the trunk because it has no tests. As for hooking up an ORM. I'm not sure what is the right way to do it. I'm even not sure about ORM in general anymore. But if I were to try, I would start with something very similar to zope.app.zodbless and then register custom traversers/views. The RDB connections would be defined in site.zcml as global utilities. The ORM gateways would also be global utilities, but defined in the zcml of the application. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training -- Brian Sutherland ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB (redux)
Brian Sutherland wrote: Ok, I'm mostly done with what I wanted to do on that branch. I want to give people a chance to review it (feel free to commit directly to the branch) so I'll leave it on the branch for about 2 weeks before trying to merge it to the trunk. I am getting an error when running from an instance after removing zodb section in etc/zope.conf File ./bin/runzope, line 48, in ? run() File ./bin/runzope, line 44, in run main([-C, CONFIG_FILE] + sys.argv[1:]) File /mbaiju/wa/jinty-zodbless/src/zope/app/twisted/main.py, line 76, in main service = setup(load_options(args)) File /mbaiju/wa/jinty-zodbless/src/zope/app/twisted/main.py, line 145, in setup app_factory = appsetup.setup_app_factory(options.databases) File /mbaiju/wa/jinty-zodbless/src/zope/app/appsetup/appsetup.py, line 221, in setup_app_factory db = multi_database(database_factories)[0][0] IndexError: list index out of range Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB (redux)
On Thursday 05 April 2007 12:50, Brian Sutherland wrote: Reading this thread made me want to try out some stuff: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-January/021612.html So I've made a jinty-zodbless branch of the trunk and want to ask for comment on some of the design decisions I've made there before I spend a lot of time writing tests/examples and generally fixing things. The actual change is: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-checkins/2007-April/029097.html I think this looks good. The only concern I have is with the term IResourceFactory, since it already has a meaning in Zope 3. On the other hand, this is a very different component, so you should be fine. I think that an added bonus would be to provide a demo on how to hook up an ORM to this new setup. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB
On Jan 20, 2007, at 3:07 PM, Chris Withers wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: ...mean that Zope 3 is currently hard-coded to need a ZODB? That depends on what you mean by Zope 3. If you define Zope 3 as zope.app.server.main, or zope.app.twisted.main, then yes, it is. I wouldn't define it that way, although I can see how others might. :) Well, for me, a Zope 3 instance is what you get when you run mkzopeinstance. If there's other alternatives to that, I'd be interested in exploring them :-) I think mkzopeinstance if fine, as far as it goes. I don't plan to use it in the future, even for setting up the existing main programs, which generally do meet my needs. (I have no interest in running Zope w/o ZODB myself.) If so, how should we go about making this optional? You would need to write a different main program that did something else. Has anyone else attempted this? As I have said over and over. Yes. Does grok have one of these? I suspect so,. You would need to understand how the publisher framework worked and plug in an alternate publication that traversed to non-ZODB objects. I touched on this with my reply to Philip, but surely the publication type should just be operating on objects that implement an interface? It seems odd, at least to me, that I'd need to rewrite publications that know about things like http, ftp and webdav just because the object I want to publish come from a file system or relational database rather than a zodb... The publisher knows nothing about the application. The publication object is the object responsible for providing this integration. It is not a very complicated interface to implement. Depending on your needs, you can likely subclass the existing piblication if you wish. ... (I am willing to put the work in to make this happen if people give me some hints...) Other people have already made this happen. I don't know if any of their code is public or if they have written up what they've done. This is a bit cryptic... are you saying there is an alternative zope 3 that already has alternatives to zope.app.server.main or zope.app.twisted.main? If so, where are they to be found? Alan Runyan and Sidnei Da Silva created one of the earliest Zope 3 applications using SQL Objects. I don't remember the name of their application or what it's status is. Maybe they'll chime in or you can ask them. Launchpad is a Zope 3 application that doesn't use ZODB. I don't think that code is available. I'll note, and this will be, hopefully, the last comment on this thread, that a Zope 3 application based on relational databases is likely to look a lot different than a traditional Zope application. In particular, I wouldn't expect such an application to use an object filing system model, which is difficult to achieve with an RDBMS. I expect that such an application would simply expose pages in some URL space that isn't derived from data structures and that these pages would simply call into databases as necessary. I expect that such an application would look a lot like applications built with other web frameworks. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org Zope Corporationhttp://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB
On 1/21/07, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Runyan and Sidnei Da Silva created one of the earliest Zope 3 applications using SQL Objects. I don't remember the name of their application or what it's status is. Maybe they'll chime in or you can ask them. That was the SIP (Sample Inventory Application). It's available from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/sampleinventory. It gave life to 'sqlos' (http://codespeak.net/z3/sqlos/), which is a bridge between Zope 3 and SQLObject. Namely, it provides some custom adapters for implementing folderish views into a database and coordinates the SQLObject transaction with the default Transaction Manager in Zope 3. It actually used the ZODB just to store a root object that was persistent and implemented a dummy interface, so that we could register a custom traverser and then delegate to the application from there. Since the root object was dummy, the ZODB could be easily thrown away. Then there is a second one called Snap, which is available from the cheeseshop (http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/snap/0.5). This one uses most of the approaches discussed here (abusing the 'db' argument, registering a custom publisher), except using a different 'main' script. It also uses zope.paste (http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/zope.paste) so that the application could be configured with Paste. -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214 ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB
On Jan 20, 2007, at 6:09 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Hey All, I'm still continuing poking around (when I have the chance) to see how I'd get Zope running without ZODB. Does the following line: db = zope.app.appsetup.appsetup.multi_database(options.databases)[0] [0] ...from: http://svn.zope.org/Zope3/trunk/src/zope/app/server/main.py? rev=71011view=markup ...mean that Zope 3 is currently hard-coded to need a ZODB? That depends on what you mean by Zope 3. If you define Zope 3 as zope.app.server.main, or zope.app.twisted.main, then yes, it is. I wouldn't define it that way, although I can see how others might. :) If so, how should we go about making this optional? You would need to write a different main program that did something else. You would need to understand how the publisher framework worked and plug in an alternate publication that traversed to non-ZODB objects. Unfortunately, these frameworks were written before we got the doctest religion, so there's no document that I'm aware of that explains how to do this. It isn't very complicated. I have a strong itch to write such a document, but I don't know when I'll get around to scratching it. I don't know if any of books get into this. (I am willing to put the work in to make this happen if people give me some hints...) Other people have already made this happen. I don't know if any of their code is public or if they have written up what they've done. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org Zope Corporationhttp://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 without ZODB
Jim Fulton wrote: ...mean that Zope 3 is currently hard-coded to need a ZODB? That depends on what you mean by Zope 3. If you define Zope 3 as zope.app.server.main, or zope.app.twisted.main, then yes, it is. I wouldn't define it that way, although I can see how others might. :) Well, for me, a Zope 3 instance is what you get when you run mkzopeinstance. If there's other alternatives to that, I'd be interested in exploring them :-) If so, how should we go about making this optional? You would need to write a different main program that did something else. Has anyone else attempted this? Does grok have one of these? You would need to understand how the publisher framework worked and plug in an alternate publication that traversed to non-ZODB objects. I touched on this with my reply to Philip, but surely the publication type should just be operating on objects that implement an interface? It seems odd, at least to me, that I'd need to rewrite publications that know about things like http, ftp and webdav just because the object I want to publish come from a file system or relational database rather than a zodb... do this. It isn't very complicated. I have a strong itch to write such a document, but I don't know when I'll get around to scratching it. I don't know if any of books get into this. I'll be blunt here, I'm more into app frameworks than server frameworks so I'm far from best placed to do this work, but I do what to see more freedom in where data served by zope 3 comes from and especially I'd to find a way to have a zope 3 not rely on a zodb being present at all. Don't get me wrong, I love zodb, but it runs into problems of political acceptance on the one hand and lack of support for high write volumes... (I am willing to put the work in to make this happen if people give me some hints...) Other people have already made this happen. I don't know if any of their code is public or if they have written up what they've done. This is a bit cryptic... are you saying there is an alternative zope 3 that already has alternatives to zope.app.server.main or zope.app.twisted.main? If so, where are they to be found? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
