Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 01:41, Paul Dumais wrote: I have familiarized myself with docbook and am gung ho. I am fairly new to zope3, so I will not be much help with content. I will be good at trying out things and keeping the document up to date. Using docbook is probably okay for most people,, not for me though. ;-) I decided to go with darcs for now, we can move to svn if darcs doesn't work for most people. I have a repo at z3book.unstate.ca. You can do: darcs get http://z3book.unstate.ca; to get the book (but there's nothing there!). I think this is a very high entry bar, since pretty much everyone in Zope 3 land uses svn. Also, you should explain how people willing to help can get access to the box. For now I am hoping to get suggestoins on how the book should be laid out. What about something like: preface Basic Usage Framework Overview Common Development Patterns Content Components I really have no clue. I was hoping that a zope3 guru could suggest how the parts could be best laid out. It seems to me that it is very tricky to have an encyclopedic resource for power users as well as easy to follow trails for newbies who are likely to get lost in the woods. I think by looking at the two existing books, you could come up with an initial outline. For those of you who have already authored tutorials, books, articles, tips, etc. It would be most excellent if you could offer them up (permission to use and alter, etc). Icing on the cake would be if you could suggest where in the zope 3 book you envision seeing your info. A cherry on top would be if you could update the information for the current release. I think you should also announce the effort to a wider audience, i.e. zope3-dev, zope, and zope-announce. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Hi all, here is a callout for input on creating a zope livebook. I have familiarized myself with docbook and am gung ho. I am fairly new to zope3, so I will not be much help with content. I will be good at trying out things and keeping the document up to date. I decided to go with darcs for now, we can move to svn if darcs doesn't work for most people. I have a repo at z3book.unstate.ca. You can do: darcs get http://z3book.unstate.ca; to get the book (but there's nothing there!). For now I am hoping to get suggestoins on how the book should be laid out. What about something like: preface Basic Usage Framework Overview Common Development Patterns Content Components I really have no clue. I was hoping that a zope3 guru could suggest how the parts could be best laid out. It seems to me that it is very tricky to have an encyclopedic resource for power users as well as easy to follow trails for newbies who are likely to get lost in the woods. I like the idea of trails (do the java tutorials still do this?). If a newbie wants to explore the forest that is zope 3, she will want to use the most well worn trails first and be confident to return home before it gets dark. Later, when she gets a sense of the lay of the land, she can venture deep on longer and less well-used tracks. I have followed a bit of the discussion regarding example apps. I really appreciated Benji York's Hello World app. It was easy to follow and left me feelling less overwhelmed than the Zope 3 Tutorial or the Zope 3 Book by Stephen Richter (I got lost and scared and have not gone back - though to be fair they are still the best on-line sources for more in depth zope 3 info). It also did a good job covering topics in just enough detail. I also appreciated that it was relatively up to date (Zope 3.2 apha?). Good examples could serve to as a guide to how to layout this book. Topics could be introduced gradually as the examples become more complicated. Also, topics could be covered in more detail as examples are shown which best demonstrate their use. Anyway, let me know what you think. For right now ideas on overall layout and a progression of example apps would be most appreciated. For those of you who have already authored tutorials, books, articles, tips, etc. It would be most excellent if you could offer them up (permission to use and alter, etc). Icing on the cake would be if you could suggest where in the zope 3 book you envision seeing your info. A cherry on top would be if you could update the information for the current release. Thanks and good night. Paul Dumais ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Fred Drake wrote: On 2/16/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, but I'm guessing there's maybe a script that can be run to turn OpenDocument into DocBook and vice versa? The DocBook -- OpenDocument conversion is lossy, so there's no round trip. :-( Oh well, not too attached to DocBook then... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On 2/17/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh well, not too attached to DocBook then... Though I'm LaTeX-friendly, I'd certainly rather DocBook over OpenDocument. Not only are there better toold for working with it, but the markup offered is more interesting for the subject domain. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com There is no wealth but life. --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Fred Drake wrote: I've worked a bit with generating OpenDocument documents for use with OpenOffice, and have no expectation that the document will be edited in a way that a plain-text user will be happy with. Since the files are ZIP files that contain XML, it's not like supporting plain text users is a use-case for OpenDocument. Indeed, but I'm guessing there's maybe a script that can be run to turn OpenDocument into DocBook and vice versa? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: I also think that pure Latex would be the best choice. It's convertible into a lot different formats and can be edited just using a simple text editor. Isn't Docbook a better choice? Is is specially designed for documents like this, and easily parsable. lots of tools around. It can (AFAIK) be read and written by Open Office or any text editor. I have used and continue to happily use DocBook for my book. I indeed use db2latex to convert it to LaTeX because that's what the publisher wants. You can also easily create HTML, manpages or PDFs (via XSL-FO). I use emacs and nxml-mode to edit DocBook. nxml-mode gives me on-the-fly validation and schema-based auto-completion. It makes me very productive. I've never tried using OpenOffice and I'm not sure whether its changes would actually leave existing whitespace intact (this would be crucial for decent diffs). By the way (1), I would very much recommend against LaTeX. I don't think everyone knows how to use it properly (I sure don't). I also think it does too much at a time (being a typesetting tool that also stores the content you're trying to typeset). With DocBook or similar formats, you can edit what matters, the content, and worry about what it's going to look like later. By the way (2), I also don't totally agree with Stephan on reST. I think reST is a powerful tool and often underestimated. When parsing reST text, docutils builds a DOM-like object structure which can easily be serialized into XML and then to anything. The standard rst2html and rst2latex scripts provided by docutils are only two possibilities. The thought of switching my book to reST has crossed my mind two or three times even, but for now I'm staying with the technology that I know and that works. Philipp ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Fred Drake wrote: So with that in mind, if you do not know how to do professional desktop publishing, then LaTeX is a much better options, since it results look really professional. We also have lots of cool support for Python documentation in LaTeX, which makes it really easy to work with after learning only some basics of LaTeX. I wish the standard library was using reST. ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On 2/15/06, Philipp von Weitershausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never tried using OpenOffice and I'm not sure whether its changes would actually leave existing whitespace intact (this would be crucial for decent diffs). I've worked a bit with generating OpenDocument documents for use with OpenOffice, and have no expectation that the document will be edited in a way that a plain-text user will be happy with. Since the files are ZIP files that contain XML, it's not like supporting plain text users is a use-case for OpenDocument. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com There is no wealth but life. --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
