Re: [Zope] [Off-Topic] KSS ugly? (was: Re: use path function on a python script)
Garito wrote at 2008-10-12 17:00 +0200: > ... >This is internet, we don't need any kind of intermediary to achieve our >needs. Really? Yo *do* need intermediaries -- lots of them: browser, network, routers, DNS, You may not need KSS -- but it may help you for some tasks. If it does not help you, no need to use it. >You could choose more than one technique to do the job, not only KSS Sure. One of the major KSS use cases has been minimal differences between support for JS and for non-JS situations. Non-KSS solutions tend to have some problems with this use case (at least my colleages spend months to support this -- with non-KSS). > >This is the real case: the computer needs to do 2 passes to achieve the real >result. Without KSS you create the non AJAX page and if the client has >javascript make the transformation. With KSS there are another pass to do >the same > >Not to much minimalism, isn't it? Looks like your understanding of KSS differs considerably from mine: In my understanding of KSS: almost nothing is different from the non AJAX case for the initial request: the page is fetched and rendered. For KSS, in addition, the KSS library is fetched (if not already loaded) and the KS style sheet activated (some JS handler defined). The differences only come when the user interacts with the page. With KSS, the user actions are intercepted by the KSS JS handlers and interpreted. They may result in server requests which return a series of KSS commands which are executed. In the non AJAX case, the complete page is reloaded -- with often is more work for both server and browser. Thus, indeed, the non Ajax modul is simpler than the KSS model -- but not necessarily less expensive. -- Dieter ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] [Off-Topic] KSS ugly? (was: Re: use path function on a python script)
2008/10/12 Dieter Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Garito wrote at 2008-10-11 16:37 +0200: > >In my country, Spain, there are a very high difference between the price > it > >cost a tomato when you buy it to the farmer that if you buy it on the > store. > >Why? Because of the intermediaries > > Sure. But sometimes intermediaries are helpful. Not in this case > > > I, e.g., would be unable to buy spanish tomatoes (or strawberries) > in Germany without intermediaries. This is internet, we don't need any kind of intermediary to achieve our needs. You could choose more than one technique to do the job, not only KSS > > > >In my opinion KSS is an intermediary who raises the work that the computer > >needs to do to retrieve a response and more if we put the non intrusive > >javascript techniques on the table > > > >Sorry but I love minimalism and KSS is anything but minimalism > > Sure, intermediaries have a price -- but often, they also add value. Not in this case: you could do the same without KSS > > > KSS, e.g., allows you to update individual portlets or menues > without reloading the complete page. This may reduce the work > computers must do. This can be done with other (JS-based) techniques > as well. However in addition, KSS handles the case with/without JS > in a transparent way. > As my colleagues intensively fight (and put much work into it) > with our requirment "must work with and without JS", > I find this quite attractive. I'm doing this since the begining with gmail. do gmail use kss? no. There are a lot of people doing non-untrosive javascript without KSS This is the real case: the computer needs to do 2 passes to achieve the real result. Without KSS you create the non AJAX page and if the client has javascript make the transformation. With KSS there are another pass to do the same Not to much minimalism, isn't it? > > > > > -- > Dieter > -- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito Zope Smart Manager http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] [Off-Topic] KSS ugly? (was: Re: use path function on a python script)
Garito wrote at 2008-10-11 16:37 +0200: >In my country, Spain, there are a very high difference between the price it >cost a tomato when you buy it to the farmer that if you buy it on the store. >Why? Because of the intermediaries Sure. But sometimes intermediaries are helpful. I, e.g., would be unable to buy spanish tomatoes (or strawberries) in Germany without intermediaries. >In my opinion KSS is an intermediary who raises the work that the computer >needs to do to retrieve a response and more if we put the non intrusive >javascript techniques on the table > >Sorry but I love minimalism and KSS is anything but minimalism Sure, intermediaries have a price -- but often, they also add value. KSS, e.g., allows you to update individual portlets or menues without reloading the complete page. This may reduce the work computers must do. This can be done with other (JS-based) techniques as well. However in addition, KSS handles the case with/without JS in a transparent way. As my colleagues intensively fight (and put much work into it) with our requirment "must work with and without JS", I find this quite attractive. -- Dieter ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] [Off-Topic] KSS ugly? (was: Re: use path function on a python script)
In my country, Spain, there are a very high difference between the price it cost a tomato when you buy it to the farmer that if you buy it on the store. Why? Because of the intermediaries In my opinion KSS is an intermediary who raises the work that the computer needs to do to retrieve a response and more if we put the non intrusive javascript techniques on the table Sorry but I love minimalism and KSS is anything but minimalism 2008/10/11 Dieter Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Garito wrote at 2008-10-8 14:22 +0200: > >I'm agree with you, Tino. Plone has a lot of ugly features (as KSS, for > >instance) > > Why is KSS ugly? > Reading the documentation, I found it quite attractive > > > > -- > Dieter > -- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito Zope Smart Manager http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
