Sean et al,
I'm new to the security side of IT, having just transferred to my
present position about a month ago. Although the military is not exactly a
good analogy for salary comparison, I would like to put my two cents in if I
may.
As a technician or manager, I would expect to receive fair
compensation when compared to others in the region with similar education
and experience (in the same industry), not to mention demand it within my
own company. I would say that today's job market is not nearly as juicy as
it was a couple of years ago, when if you could spell "IT" you were
virtually guaranteed a $50K a year job (minimum). Today there are many
"good" IT professionals who are looking for work. It's my firm belief that
the technology boom of the 1990's allowed many to call themselves "IT"
people, when in fact they really hadn't a clue as to what they were doing
and were merely riding on the coat tails of those who did. What that
resulted in was your coworker with an AA in Interior Design being in charge
because those with technical savvy and enough guts tried creating/working
for new start-ups.
That said, I'd also like to point out that there's a lot to be said
for longevity, loyalty, and the stick-to-it-iveness that has allowed people
to advance. The fact that your boss has an AA in an unrelated discipline is
really immaterial. They have the position. The fact that new team member has
a bachelors degree and earns $7K more than you should motivate you to
increase your educational level. As a prior enlisted AF member and currently
an officer, it always bothers me when someone who has less rank whines about
not making as much money as someone else. Here's a newsflash: That person
has probably worked their rear ends off to get to where they are, and
whether they deserve it or not they've attained a certain level of
responsibility. Those who are complaining should look inside, decide whether
getting that pay raise is worth the extra time to educate themselves or not
(either with an Associates, Bachelors, or Masters degree or with a technical
certification). I'm a firm believer in setting goals, then charting a course
to attain them.
Sean, I wasn't trying to create any kind of a bad vibe here, just
weighing in with my opinion. I live by what I've said in this message. I was
in a non-IT field for a number of years in the AF, then had the opportunity
to change career fields. Knowing that I needed to continue my education was
a result of planning where I wanted to be in 2, 5, and 10 years. I didn't
want to be a programmer my whole life, because quite frankly unless you
develop the "killer app", you're going to stagnate in salary somewhere in
time. If you want to move into management, get the education that's desired
by employers.
I was once told by someone I respected a great deal "Those who know
how will always work for those who know why." I truly believe that is true.
~Freddie
David C. Kruger, 1st Lt, USAF
Chief, Vulnerability Assessment Branch
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Gullett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:58 PM
To: sean dankers; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Am I getting the wrong end of the stick?????
I would say that taking a job at ANY company that does not have a formal
evaluation process is a mistake. I was unemployed for a year and finally
took a job with a small 50 employee company. The recruiter told me that
they had an evaluation process, but I actually asked to speak with a number
of the employee's and I actually asked them the question of how often they
had gotten reviews, and if raises were a part of the review process for
exceptional reviews. I also asked them how much of a resource the HR
department was to them and other employee's.
After lengthy negotiations where I gave a lot of ground and they gave a
little...I took the job for less than I was worth, because I was confident
that I would solidify my skills with experience on the job and get more
"formal" (title oriented) security experience. I also knew that I had a
decent chance of getting a raise at review time. I just got my review and
was given a 20% increase. I am still underpaid, but one more year and
another possibility of a raise like that and I will be in fair market range.
Then I will have the number of years on my resume to get the upper hand in
interviews, and when a person changes jobs, they should shoot for around a
20% increase. I have a college degree and am planning on starting my
Masters Degree next year. I also have a number of Certifications, because I
know consulting companies like that kind of thing...so do many clients.
One other thing. Don't think about what others are making. If you are not
making that, then it is your responsibility to find the reason and fix it
(and I am not talking about in that company). You are the owner of the
business that is "you"! You are your own sales force, marketing agent,
trainer, accountant and CEO. If pay is important to your job satisfaction,
then make sure you know how to make it happen in your chosen field. It may
take time, study, money, risk, and job changes...but you can make it happen.
-----Original Message-----
From: sean dankers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Am I getting the wrong end of the stick?????
I work as a govt contractor in DC and have been with my present company for
a year now. Previously I was in the Armed Forces for 9 years to give you a
little background. Anyways, I went in for a review and was told that they
do not give formal reviews because they have less than 50 employees. My
supervisor then stated that all was to receive was a Cost-of-Living
adjustment. I am currently the lowest paid IA analyst on the so-called
team. I say so-called because the team lead is one with no IT experience
and a associates from 1974 in Interior Design and gets a little more than 7k
than I do. She has been here only a few months because I was the only one
working on a 3 person contract. The newest team member is fresh out of the
Army working on his Masters and gets 15k more than I do. I have worked with
the client to help my company get a new contract and have helped them get
another federal contract during my time here.
Should I have received more than a COL raise for being a excellent employee
and surpassing my initial expectations??????
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