Agreed. I think the best approach is for typical triples not to be "on" any page---rather, various triples from the store are brought out and attached to various pages because they are relevant to those pages. Once they are on those pages they should be editable there.
As for the whole issue of "conflicts", I don't think we need to solve it. Disagreement about the population of Montana can arise in a traditional wiki as well. And the (surprisingly) effective technique that wikis use to resolve the problem is simply to let people argue it out on the wiki until it settles down. It may be true that in a traditional wiki, such conflicts can be hidden by the fact that the different, contradictory assertions are placed on different pages, and that a semantic wiki will highlight those contradictions by bringing all those triples together. But in the long run, isn't it better to reveal these contradictions so people can argue them out? Uschold, Michael F wrote: > In a prior post I indicated that you do not want three separate triples on > the three separate pages. You merely want them to be visible and editable > from there. They could be in a back end store, and viewable from various > places. > > This may have architectural impacts, and there may be good reasons from an > implementers perspective why to keep it the way it is, and those reasons may > ultimately win out when all the tradeoffs are considered. > > I do hope that I think the developers' needs are second to users' needs. > After all, developers are building something FOR users, not [just] for > themselves. > > Easy for me to say, being a user and not a developer :-)) > > Michael > > ========================== > Michael Uschold > M&CT, Phantom Works > 425 373-2845 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ========================== > > ---------------------------------------------------- > COOL TIP: to skip the phone menu tree and get a human on the phone, go to: > http://gethuman.com/tips.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron Koren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:11 AM > To: Kelly Jones > Cc: semediawiki-user@lists.sourceforge.net; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [swikig] [Semediawiki-user] Modeling "third party" relations > onSemantic Mediawikipage? > > [Now I don't know which of the two competing threads to respond to... > I'm picking this one.] > > Someone brought it up before, but it's worth repeating: the thing that makes > free-form triples on semantic wikis (in my opinion) very undesirable is > having to deal with conflicts. To borrow from the original example, if Bob's > page lists a population size for Montana, and Bill's page lists a different > population, and Montana's own page lists a third population altogether, how > do you know which one to use? > There are other arguments that can be made against free-form triples, but in > a sense they all stem back from this problem of data conflicts. > > -Yaron > > > On 4/27/07, Kelly Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> It seems easy to modify Semantic Mediawiki to allow this? (said by a >> very poor programmer). My thoughts: >> >> % Tweak SMW's hooks to understand [[x::R::y]] to mean the triple x,R,y >> >> % Add columns to smw_relations/etc to indicate which page created a >> given row (it's no longer guarenteed to be the 'subject' page) >> >> % Tweak the save/delete hooks: when a page is saved, all rows that >> page created are deleted and re-created >> >> % To avoid cacheing issues, if page w has a relation [[x::R::y]], >> force-update page x when w is saved. >> >> Any takers? >> >> -- >> We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying >> to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to >> new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile. >> >> On 4/26/07, Uschold, Michael F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> This seems to confirm that the information given in a prior message >>> is incorrect. That person said one COULD create a triple relating >>> Idaho and Montana in the Bob page. >>> >>> Just to be clear. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> ========================== >>> Michael Uschold >>> M&CT, Phantom Works >>> 425 373-2845 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ========================== >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> COOL TIP: to skip the phone menu tree and get a human on the phone, go to: >>> http://gethuman.com/tips.html >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Max Voelkel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:59 AM >>> To: Daniel Schwabe >>> Cc: Jones, David H; Murray, William R; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >>> semediawiki-user@lists.sourceforge.net; Blanchard, Duane L; >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Uschold, Michael F >>> Subject: Re[2]: [Semediawiki-user] [swikig] Modeling "third party" >>> relations on Semantic Mediawikipage? >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> the overall question seems to be how a semantic wiki creates triples. >>> Of course, technically, one could create triples everywhere. >>> >>> Not allowing this in Semantic MediaWiki has two reasons: >>> >>> 1) (the important reason) >>> >>> Make it easier for the user. One has not to think in triples, >>> annotated links >>> is enough. Even better: whenever a search result brings page X >>> up, but one is >>> courious why, it's enough to go to page X and look there. >>> There can be no >>> ohter place where a wrong triple about X can be made. >>> >>> 2) (the tiny reason) >>> It's easier to handle. Whenever a user edits a page X, >>> semantic mediawiki >>> simply removes all triples (X,*,*), parses the page and >>> adds triples as >>> needed. >>> >>> A paper about possible ways to create annotations from wiki pages >>> (the design >>> space) is here [1] >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Annotation_and_Navigation_in_Semantic_Wiki >>> s >>> >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> Max >>> >>> -- >>> Max Völkel >>> http://Xam.de >>> >>> FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik http://www.FZI.de >>> an der Universität Karlsruhe telephone: +49-721-9654-0 >>> Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10-14 fax: +49-721-9654-959 >>> D-76131 Karlsruhe >>> >>> Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts. Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium >>> Karlsruhe. >>> Vorstand: Prof. Dr.-Ing. Rüdiger Dillmann, Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Michael Flor, >>> Prof. Dr. Dr.-Ing. Jivka Ovtcharova, Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Rudi Studer. >>> Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 >>> Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your >>> XML. No limits. Just data. 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