Hi,

Please be in a good mood when you read this. Words can be taken the wrong way. 
I am writing this with a big smile on my face, all in good humour. 😆

>> 
>>> [... snipped everything ...]
> 
> I agree with everything you wrote.

I think you are taking certain things a little too much out of context. 😀

My point is more about being honest than being generous. I am not trying to 
recruit anybody to provide free work. Not at all.

When I say there should be some kind of SLA, I am not at all suggesting that 
everybody commit a fixed amount of time or make any guarantees to solve other 
people’s problems for free. Actually, I thought I had proposed quite the 
opposite (that we list people and companies who are willing to do it for a 
fee.) So it sounds like we are very much in agreement. Nobody should be 
expected to work for free if the don’t want to.

My point is about being up front and honest, so people know what to expect and 
can weigh their options. In order to build trust, we need to set reasonable 
expectations (whatever they happen to be), and stick to them (or update them if 
we can’t). Personally, I prefer when somebody under-sells and over-delivers the 
somebody who does the opposite. I can trust that person and if I agree to their 
terms, I know I will be satisfied. From what I have read and based on the 
people I know, I think that most people appear to be the same.

If people don’t understand their options, then the unknowns make using James 
too risky. In my mind, that is not a successful community project.

For instance, if the website states that that a particular feature of James 
works, then it really should work. Otherwise nobody will trust the James 
community.

There are already basic standards in place and are I think being respected, 
else the community would very quickly fall apart:

 * New features should have tests
 * Tests should always pass
 * Code should always compile
 * Etc.

I could suggest that we add a bit to that list for the sole purpose of setting 
expectations and, hopefully, eventually expanding the community.

And anyway, is it really such a horrible thing, for instance, to ask somebody 
who commits a feature to ensure that it gets documented properly? Or that the 
code is readable? Etc.

If it is too much to ask, then we should instead write disclaimers on the 
website to warn people instead of trying to boast about how awesome James is.

>   Don't like it? Don't use it.

I don’t disagree with that statement. Let me just make sure that I completely 
understand with this test: if somebody dumps trash all over a public place, 
then states “Don’t like it? Don’t use it.” I don’t think I would be very happy. 
True, I won’t use a park full of trash because I don’t like it, but I think 
that’s an abuse of this principle. I trust that is not what you mean, right? I 
am assuming that what you mean is more along the lines of “The suit doesn’t 
fit? Ok, don’t wear it!"

By all means, please go ahead and make nice suits, even if it doesn’t fit 
everybody. But please do not dump trash in the park.


> I am a volunteer in the Apache Software Foundation as all of us are.

Sorry… I took the bait and feel compelled to respond to your little lecture. 😀

Are you really?

The definition I found was:

> a person who does something, especially helping other people, willingly and 
> without being forced or paid to do it


Except for the “without getting paid” part, I should point out that you are 
stating exactly the opposite. 😂

It’s all ok. You are just being honest about your intentions: you are in it for 
your own gain, not to help others. If others can benefit from your work, great, 
but that is not your primary objective. Fine.

Of course there is nothing wrong with that. My efforts to help with 
documentation are not entirely altruistic, either. But you can’t have your cake 
and eat it, too. You can’t call yourself a “volunteer" if really you’re just in 
it for yourself and others just happen to maybe benefit. And if you really are 
in it to help others, then you would be thinking of them first.

So yeah, let’s just be honest and set the right expectations so everybody is 
happy.

Having an SLA will help do that. We should only commit to what we are willing 
to commit to, but there **must** be a clear definition of the service level 
that is being offered (even if essentially says "f*** you stupid user”, at 
least that’s clear and honest.)


Ok, all that was very abstract and waaaaaay off-topic, but I wasn’t expecting a 
reaction like the one you had so I had to have a little fun with it. 😂

If you reread my initial message in this new light, I hope you’ll find that it 
was not intended to sound unreasonable. It is about honesty and expectation 
setting, not free work.


So if we agree that an SLA is necessary (and I think we are agreeing), then 
most of what you wrote (i.e. what you are not willing to commit to) relates to 
what the contents of the SLA ought to be. And what you write makes good sense 
in that context.


Cheers,
=David


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