Hi,
(I replied to your other message before seeing this posting)
I must admit you argue the points well, and interestingly reads rather
like a sales pitch - I note that WebMacro is free. My problem with the
method in principle is the use of what is effectively another
programming language - WebMacro may be written in Pure Java, but it's
use doesn't exactly encourage this. It's bad enough having HTML & XML to
contend with! Although there can be efficiency gains in pre-compilation
etc, I see no reason why this cannot all be done more directly.
I personally feel the creation of yet anotrher scripting language is
defeating the object of using a single, well-defined language.
To sum up :
#foreach $newterm in $Macro.Language {
<tr>
<td>$onemore.Thingtolearn</td>
<td>AND</td>
<td>$onemore.Thingtogowrong</td>
</tr>
}
Cheers,
Danny.
Justin Wells wrote:
>
> I think this analysis misses the main point. Templates don't save time
> by eliminating the need to type println(), the advantages are more
> fundamental than that:
>
> -- Encapsulation of presentation issues allows for cleaner
> (and therefore more rapid) development, debugging, and
> maintenance; as well as more effective page design. In other
> words it's easier to see what the servlet is doing when it is a
> few short lines of code--and therefore easier to work on.
>
> -- Separation of concerns allows team development. Work on
> the template and on the servlet can happen concurrently
>
> -- Separation of concerns allows specialized work; programmers
> can build ugly prototypes with the necessary information; page
> designers can then make it pretty. Even when these people
> are the same person, I think the "right brain" vs. "left brain"
> mental shift makes this a big win--concentrate on programming
> in the servlet work; concentrate on presentation during the
> template work.
>
> -- Templates allow you to plug-and-play the look of a servlet,
> even at runtime. Return different presentations depending on the
> users preference.
>
> -- Templates can include the use of an HTML editor to make the
> creation of the HTML less tedious and more sophisticated.
>
> -- Page design requires working with the whole page; almost
> impossible to do with hardcoded statements; natural with
> a template based approach.
>
> -- The ability to make quick, easy changes promotes a better
> development process. If changes are difficult to make, you
> won't make them. You will tend not to revise your approach
> when new information about the problem is uncovered. Your
> program will become brittle and incomprehensible with each
> successive hack. When change is easy, you will embrace it,
> adapting your approach to new situations, keeping your code
> resiliant and flexible.
>
> In short, a system like WebMacro brings a Model/View/Controller
> approach to servlet development, with all the attendent benefits.
>
> http://webmacro.org
>
> It is certainly not just saving the work of typing "println", though
> it does that as well. Viewing it as a println problem indicates a
> lack of awareness of the whole project, including the need to embrace
> change, and the need to partition work.
>
> WebMacro takes this attitude further than other template systems in
> that it insists the servlet code must be natural and simple, just
> as much as the template. Therefore it bends over backward to avoid
> imposing abnormal restrictions on programmers--there are no funny
> interfaces that your classes have to implement, instead WebvMacro
> performs analysis on your objects to build ways of accessing
> their properties (bean-stle, but more aggressive than the basic
> bean spec).
>
> WebMacro also emphasizes efficiency, therefore it compiles the template
> into an efficient form for fast execution.
>
> http://webmacro.org
>
> Justin
>
> Quoting Danny Ayers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Hi,
> > I'm sure most programmers would agree that hardcoding and templates each
> > have their place. One thing that does irritate me though is how systems
> > for templates (not just for Java/HTML) keep appearing that require the
> > user to learn proprietary techniques, usually scripting languages. All
> > are offered as timesavers, 'no hardcoding required' being the selling
> > point. Well, I wouldn't have to do any Java hardcoding if I'd bothered
> > to learn Perl & PHP scripting...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Danny.
> >
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