RE: ShopTalk: ProForce 65 regular and stiff

[Kevil, L H.]

Hi guys,   Thanks for e-mails and the "tips." Since the weather is getting cold and we all are spending more time talking about golf and less doing it, let me lay out the exact problem for possible comments.   The job is to duplicate the feel of an existing driver, which has a ProForce 65 R tipped 0.5" in an Integra IV head. The new driver will have an Impex titanium 2 offset head and a ProForce 65 shaft. Because of the offset hosel, the shaft will not penetrate into the head at all. To use an R flex shaft would require considerable tipping. According to the Golfsmith catalogue, the parallel tip section is only 3"-4", so I got a ProForce S shaft, hoping to have to tip much less than with an R, if at all. The customer has a powerful if wild swing, so something a tad stiffer than the original driver would be a good outcome.   Since I don't have a meter - Bernie's surmise is quite correct - I need a conversion factor from R to S to adjust for the different bottom-of-bore-to-ground dimensions of the heads. I just received the head from Hireko yesterday evening and haven't measured it yet. But if you need to trim 1.5" from an R to get the feel of an S (thanks again, Rich) and the difference in bottom-of-bore-to-ground between the Impex head and a blind-bore approximates 1.5", I am tempted to pop the S straight in without tipping and let the tip-stiffness of the shaft provide the proper feel, even though the frequency might be a little low. What do y'all think?   David, didn't you post a message while back noting the importance of a constant trim increment in an iron set ? That was a very interesting observation, as it suggests a possible reason why two clubs measuring the same frequency might feel different in actual play.   Hunter   L. H. Kevil Univ. of Missouri-Columbia -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Baymiller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: ProForce 65 regular and stiff David,   Besides feel, there's another problem with tipping driver shafts. As soon as you get above the reinforced tip, the wall thickness drops and snapping the shaft off at the hosel is much more likely. I don't know how far you can go on a PF65, but I discovered you can only go about 2" to the weak section of an Aldila Longwood 50/50. As soon as you tip over half an inch on that shaft, you don't have the wall thickness to support hard hits. On the other hand, the 49" Pure Energy is made to tip with a 7" parallel reinforced section. I like tipping this A-flex shaft because it reduces the weight considerably...4 grams in a 2-1/2" tip takes a 59 gram shaft down to 55 grams. Feel is compromised a bit, but not much...in fact, my hard-hitting seniors seem to like the feel of it on a 47" driver.   Bernie Writeto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:26 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: ProForce 65 regular and stiff In a message dated 10/31/2002 12:50:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can anybody say how much you would need to tip a ProForce 65 regular to make it freq the same as a stiff? TIA, Hunter L. Hunter Kevil Hi Hunter, You would be better off using a stiff. When I built my demo drivers for the retail store I used Pro Force gold's and Vector Beta Ti heads knowing that both performed well, I've sent a lot of people to the range with tipped 65 R's and un tipped 65 S's as well as un tipped 65 X's and tipped 65 S's As well as the same in 75's and all of the above in varying degrees of tipping. I also have other demo drivers all told ranging from about 215-315 cpm's in about 4 cpm increments with varying tipping basically starting with the softest shafts and the heaviest heads to the stiffest shafts with the lightest heads. The feedback I've gotten overwhelmingly suggests that the less tipping the better the feel and performance. I tried to start a thread on the effect of tipping on feel and performance but the only feed back I got was from Tom W. saying that it's effect would depend on the shaft, which I would have to agree with, but in the case of the UST and I am starting to believe with all shafts that the more parallel tip you can offer while still maintaining the frequency you need the better. David