ED, Guy's What we would do is much the same as you guys did buy added a few other things like a skins game that we wold give only a haft stroke per hole on all of the handicapped holes. By a haft stroke I mean like to be fair for the low handicap players, like I used to play to a 7 hcp, so that it was more fairer to them we only allowe a haft stroke per hole to better allow the "Typical Sandbagger" to play to more of a true hcp. and to allow the lower hcp person a hjance to win a few skins. most of the time we would just pick a team from a deck of playing cards with all of the Kings playing together and all of the Queen's and Jack's etc; that way it "Truely was the luck of the draw, if that is what you are looking for. That way if lets say low hcp player got a birdie on lets say a par three and a higher hcper got a par with a stroke by us only allowing a haft stroke the higher hcp golfer 2.5 score on the par 3 and the lower hcp golfer got his full "0" stroke on the par 3 which would given him a 2 there by winning the skin. we found that with this system it allowed the lower hcp golfer a chance to win skins a wee bit better that he full hcp system/way of doing business. However we would allow the higher hcp golfer his full strokes in the regular game which ever we would play. But we always drew cards to pick teams.100%of the time. However some times we drew cards by how many clubs were playing in the tournament, like lets say that there where 4 different clubs playing in the tournament then we would say like the "Spades" would all come from say the host club and all of the Clubs would come from from lets say the club that held the last tournament and so on. Since we never had more then 52 golfers we never had any problems with running of cards., all prize monies were adjusted by the host club/ with all meals being put up by the host club and being paid for by them. now i am talking just about lunch's only "NO DINNERS" unless it was the invitational or as some of us true golfers would call it "THE BRING YOUR WALLET OPEN". THREE Days of COMPETION plus a practice round plus prize's all for just $350.00/team plus side bets, the year my partner and I won it we both came away well over $ 2500.00 in side bet money alone and that doesn't even count the prize from the main prize fund. in the 13 years that we played in the Invitational we were never out of the money "NEVER".
Oh by the way we ever played "CAPT IAN CHOICE" OR ANY TYPE OFA SCRAMBLE " NEVER IN A MILLIOM YEARS WOULD WE EVER ALLOW ANY TYPE OF A SCRAMBLE" RK Oh by the way I am ot bragging either when it came to us winning. On 8/7/07, Ed Reeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bernie, > VERY similar to what we do. We typically have four "Home and Home" > matches a year, total of eight rounds of golf for our "senior" group. > Like you, this is for about 20 golfers. We might have an one club that > is far enough out of town that we spend the night. On those occasions > we might have a "bonus" round the day before for those who want to come > up early. > > We get special rates and breakfast/lunch as well. Generally we get > their guest day rate, or lower. Sometimes the pot is taken from the > green fees, sometimes there is an additional buy-in. Never more than > $10. The "game" is up to the home club. Always there is a low team > score, but sometimes there are separate closest to the hole and skins > games. > > All in all it is a great way to play different courses and to meet some > wonderful people. > > /Ed > > Bernie Baymiller wrote: > > Ed, > > > > We had a "home and away" event with a local country club for a few > > years, about 20 players from each club, and handled it much like you > > are...2 low net. We had two players from our group and two players > > from their group in each foursome. Each player kicked in $10, I think, > > and we paid 3 places. What kept it fair was a knowledge captains from > > both clubs had of all players...who was playing good and bad, who was > > sandbagging of sorts, who played fast and slow, etc. The captains got > > together and made up teams based on handicaps and their knowledge of > > players. Each club threw a buffet lunch for the other at their home > > course (Nothing fancy...burgers, dogs, beans, potato salad, etc. and I > > recall their home baked cookies were great!). Greens fees (including > > cart and range balls to warm up) were a special rate $25 for the > > visitors. Lunch, golf and a lot of fun for $35...didn't even need to > > win to have a good day. Home players kicked in some bucks to cover > > visitors' lunches...think usually about $20. But, even with only $400 > > in the pot, it was always a somewhat spirited competition. > > > > Bernie > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Reeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "clubmaker online" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:50 PM > > Subject: ShopTalk: Re: Tournament Pairings Help > > > > > >> Dave, > >> Absolutely great questions. > >> > >> 1. The competitions are individual foursome events. > >> > >> 2. A foursome's 2 best net scores per hole. (2 * 18) = Total Team > >> Strokes > >> > >> 3. Net scores, handicaps are monitored and are trusted (but sand > >> baggers will exist to some small degree). > >> > >> 4. "Fair" was probably the incorrect term. Equitable might be > >> better. Dean Knuth's web site has an article on picking a partner > >> http://www.popeofslope.com/guidelines/picking.html > >> There are certain handicap combinations that have an advantage / > >> disadvantage. I would want to avoid those combinations if possible. > >> > >> Here is an excerpt from the Knuth article: > >> Dr. Scheid has also researched four-man teams, a grouping most often > >> found in a pro-amateur competition. In many tournaments, the teams > >> consist of an A player (handicap of 3 to 7), B (8-12), C (13-17) and > >> D (18-22), making each team relatively equal in strength. but when > >> teams are allowed to put together their own combinations, it's > >> possible to gain an advantage by studying Dr. Scheid's findings. They > >> show that a team composed entirely of A players would have an edge on > >> a team of C players, but would not fare as well as a team of B > >> players. According to Dr. Scheid, the best combination would be a > >> team whose composition is BBDD. Next, a full stroke behind in > >> potential, would be a team of AACC, closely followed by AABB and > >> AADD. This research is not to be dismissed lightly, based as it is on > >> the study of thousands of tournament scores. > >> > >> Of course our fields won't have an equal distribtion of A, B, C, & D > >> players. > >> > >> /Ed > >> > >> Dave Tutelman wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Sorry to disappoint, Ed! I guess I'm not a smart guy, because I don't > >>> understand the question. Actually, I don't think I know what a fair > >>> foursome is. For instance, first I would want to know: > >>> > >>> (1) Does a club win, or does an individual win? > >>> > >>> (2) What game is being played? Individual stroke play? Four ball > >>> better ball? Something else? > >>> > >>> (3) Does the game include handicap, or is it gross? Either way, are > >>> the handicaps known and trusted? > >>> > >>> (4) Could you give some examples of an UNFAIR foursome, so I know > >>> what the metric of fairness is? > >>> > >>> Basically I'm saying that you are asking for a precise, algorithmic > >>> solution to a problem that is far from precisely stated. ("Fair" is > >>> hardly a precise measurement.) > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> DaveT > >>> > >>> At 04:42 PM 8/6/2007, Ed Reeder wrote: > >>> > >>> >I'm hoping that one of you smart guys can help me out. > >>> > > >>> > From time to time I participate in tournaments with other clubs > >>> and we > >>> >create foursomes which usually consist of two players from one > >>> club and > >>> >two players from the other club. At times the number of players on > >>> each > >>> >side may be different, so instead of 2 from each side, it could be > >>> 3 and > >>> >1, or even 4 and 0. > >>> > > >>> >Right now we do this by hand, with no real guidance on how to fairly > >>> >allocate the players. > >>> > > >>> >I'd like to have a way to automatically and fairly create foursomes. > >>> >Though we typically have only two clubs to draw from, I could see > >>> that > >>> >three or four could be a possibility. > >>> > > >>> >I've got a few questions: > >>> >1. Is there a formula for fairly creating the foursomes? > >>> >2. Is there a way to automate this in Excel, with the ability to > draw > >>> >players from 1 to 4 "pools" of players? > >>> >3. Is there a cheap software package that does this? > >>> > > >>> >Thx, > >>> > > >>> >/Ed > >>> > >>> -- > > > > >
