I don't think so.
Actually, it is a great example of course RATING manipulating. Not slope.
When you take a look at how courses are rated, the distance is by far
the largest factor in the course rating. Other factors -- hazards,
rough, difficulty of hitting fairways, hills, etc -- go into
computing the slope. That really was not played with in today's setup.
They went to a lot of trouble to groom it as perfectly as they could,
but I didn't see anything that would affect the slope. My
observations were that the course was being set up to play longer
than usual from the whites (probably the normal distance from blues
and reds). That would affect course rating, but have minimal (if any)
impact on slope.
Cheers!
DaveT
At 04:51 PM 8/5/2009, Robert Devino wrote:
This is a great example of course slope manipulating. 90 % of the
time your not playing the course the card says you are!!!
Sincerely,
Robert Devino
14252 Delano St.
Van Nuys, Ca. 91401
(818) 908-1691
From: Dave Tutelman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Tom Flanagan <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:41:56 AM
Subject: ShopTalk: Handicaps (was KZG Gemini driver heads)
Played Hominy Hill this morning. A few things from that experience
that relate to this discussion.
Noticing that the white tees were further back than usual on the
first hole, I asked the starter if it was just the first hole or was
that the order of the day. He said that they set up the course to
play the yardage on the scorecard today. Why? Because the NJSGA is
coming to RE-RATE THE COURSE this afternoon.
This raises a number of points:
(1) I'm just about certain that more tees were farther back than
usual. (I play this course 20-30 times a year.) Definitely longer
than usual. Which means that the course rating is higher than it
usually plays. That tends towards vanity handicaps. I will normally
play the course shorter than it is rated, and likely get a lower
score than I would at rated length.
(2) The greens were faster and the sand was better than usual. That
does not automatically make the course harder, nor easier. (The
greens stimped at 9 or 10, fast but nowhere near "bikini wax" fast.)
It favors people who know what to do with these conditions. If you
just finished playing Spring Meadow -- concrete in the bunkers and
shag carpet on the greens, or it least it seems that way -- then
today's conditions might make Hominy Hill difficult.
I didn't find it any harder. In fact, I shot a better score on the
front than usual. I kinda' wilted on the back nine in the 90* heat,
and wound up shooting about what I usually do for 18.
I also saw a real live stimpmeter in use for the first time. I
expected to see the ramp with a brace that holds it at the specified
angle. But no! The slot from which the ball starts is apparently
machined to very close tolerances. You place the ball in the slot
and raise one end of the ramp. The slot is designed so the ball
rolls out of the slot and down the slope at exactly the correct
angle. Very clever, but requires precision in the slot dimensions
and the ball dimensions.
More below...
At 01:27 PM 8/5/2009, <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] wrote:
> This was a pretty good explanation by tflan.
I agree completely. But one thing needs a little clarification.
TFlan said, "A course rated at 72 say, is meaningless to the
handicap system." True, it has nothing to do with computing your
course handicap from your index. But it is a very important part of
computing your index from your actual score at the course.
As Tom said, look at the USGA site for a more complete explanation.
> When the USGA came through, they not only changed the slope and
course rating a bit (rated higher now), but they also reordered the
holes. For the most part I agree with the new ratings, but for
some reason the hole that everyone thinks is the second hardest on
the course is now rated the second easiest, and one of the easiest
holes on the course is rated as the second hardest. Not sure how
that determination was made, but it does hose up where you get/give
strokes for sure.
TFlan already answered this pretty well. I'd like to take my own
crack at it. Maybe hearing it explained slightly differently will help.
The handicap ordering of the holes is NOT an indicator of how hard
the hole is on any absolute scale. It is a measure of HOW MUCH
HARDER it is for a bogey golfer than for a scratch golfer. I was
reminded again of this as I played Hominy Hill set up for rating.
Some examples:
(1) If you look at the scorecard for many courses, you will note
that the top-rated holes are the par-fives. (At Hominy, the
par-fives are rated 1, 2, 3, and 8.) A scratch golfer typically
considers them birdie opportunities, so it sure isn't a "hard hole"
for them. A high handicapper, OTOH, experiences a par-5 as just more
opportunities to screw up. Which brings us to...
(2) The #1 rated hole is the par-5 fourteenth. It's an
average-length par-5, with a 60-yard pond that must be cleared
immediately in front of the green. Duffers consider it a really hard
hole. Since I cleaned up my swing to be more reliable ten years ago,
my view of this hole changed radically. It went from very hard to
one that I WILL PAR as long as I don't mess up any shot. I don't
need to hit great shots to par it, just competent shots. That is a
PERFECT example of a top-rated hole, where a confident golfer isn't
fazed at all, but a duffer sees all sorts of trouble -- and winds up in it.
(3) I personally think the hardest hole on the course is the tenth.
It's a long dogleg par-4, with the last 150yd uphill to a very
well-protected green whose surface you can't see. The handicap
rating on this hole is 11. HOW IN HELL CAN SUCH A HARD HOLE BE RATED
#11. The answer is that it is a hard hole for EVERYBODY, scratch and
duffer alike. A scratch golfer going for it in two is likely to get
in trouble and wind up with bogey. A bogey golfer playing it
conservatively can probably hit a wedge to the green for the third
shot, and have (as Johnny Miller puts it) "bogey option par." So
that isn't the place that a stroke most needs to be given.
Hope this helps,
DaveT
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