Ok, thinking about this some more, I am still conflicted. There are two schools here... simplicity and conservation.
I think worrying about conservation is important. But are we trying to converse needlessly? If we think we will be using v6 in 20 years, I think we are kidding ourselves. With the IoE/IoT, the consumption of address space is going to accelerate in a huge way. If we're not thinking about what is after IPv6, then we're doing ourselves a disservice anyway. But that is the future, and extremely difficult to predict in this area. I think simplicity is better in this case... except if it is not really simple. If we have to alter a significant amount of policy to make it simpler, then it isn't really simple. The question is, how critical is this at the moment? I'd like to see thing simpler, but I'd like to know how complex it would be to implement it - correctly. ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Senior IP Broker* *v4Now - *an eintellego Networks service ske...@v4now.com ; www.v4now.com Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve facebook.com/v4now ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau> linkedin.com/in/skeeve twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers On 18 September 2014 12:02, Skeeve Stevens <ske...@v4now.com> wrote: > Elvis, > > Owens position has been quite simply explained. > > He does NOT oppose the increase in the size of the allocation.... just > just wants it done more cleanly. > > Deans argument is that this will potentially waste additional space. > > I see, and actually agree with both positions... I like to conserve > address space, but Owens point is very valid... even if 1 million > organisations took a /28, it would still make minimal impact on the address > space over a significant period. > > But, planning for the future is something we should keep in our mind... > but, not at the detriment of todays operations. > > His point of the number of name servers for reverse delegation for a /29 > being 8 and a /28 being 1 is quite a compelling reason to increase the > default 'larger' allocation to /28. > > So... balancing the two.. I support increasing the standard large > allocation to a /28. > > > ...Skeeve > > *Skeeve Stevens - Senior IP Broker* > *v4Now - *an eintellego Networks service > ske...@v4now.com ; www.v4now.com > > Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve > > facebook.com/v4now ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau> > linkedin.com/in/skeeve > > twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com > > > IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers > > On 18 September 2014 09:59, Elvis Velea <el...@velea.eu> wrote: > >> Hi Owen, >> >> what has ARIN to do with the policy in APNIC? >> I could also justify my arguments by saying that the RIPE policy allows >> up to a /29 per member.. and that policy works very well as well. >> >> Let's not use other regions' policies to justify disapproval of this >> policy proposal. Especially when both ARIN and RIPE have different policies >> that work very well. >> >> I would like to ask you to explain what kind of errors/difficulties may >> induce the allocation of a /29 (instead of a /28) in regards to RPKI and >> DNSSSEC. I do not really understand that part (sorry, I am not very >> technical). If it's fat-fingering you are talking about, that can happen >> regardless of the size of the allocation. >> >> I find it surprising that you oppose to a policy proposal that would >> allow members of APNIC to use more IPv6 addresses just because the policy >> does not say 'more than more' (/28s instead of /29s). >> >> cheers, >> elvis >> >> On 18/09/14 09:35, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> Absolutely… That is current policy in the ARIN region and it is working >> well. >> >> The reality is that the amount saved by doing non-nibble boundary >> allocations is insignificant compared to the likely increase in human >> factors related errors induced and other varieties of inconvenience (RPKI >> difficulties, DNSSEC difficulties, etc.) >> >> In reality, there are probably well under 1,000,000 organizations that >> could justify more than a /28 (i.e. a /24) world wide. Probably at most a >> few million ISPs that would be able to justify more than a /32 (i.e. a /28, >> serving more than 50,000 customers), I think we’re fine. >> >> If it turns out I’m wrong and we burn through 2000::/3 this way in less >> than 50 years, than I will happily admit it and help anyone who is >> interested draft more restrictive policies for the remaining untouched ~3/4 >> of IPv6 address space. >> >> So far, we haven’t even managed to polish off a /12 in any region. >> >> Owen >> >> On Sep 17, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Elvis Velea <el...@velea.eu> wrote: >> >> Hi Owen and Mike, >> >> can you explain why /28 and not /29? >> >> Why waste so much and use only nibble boundaries? What would you accept >> if someone needs more than a /28, allocation of a /24? >> >> Kind regards, >> Elvis >> >> On 18/09/14 06:24, HENDERSON MIKE, MR wrote: >> >> Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I completely agree with Owen's >> position on this matter. >> >> To reiterate: >> · I can accept that sparse allocations already made on /29 >> boundaries can be expanded to fill the entire /29, if there is no room to >> expand them to a /28. >> · I do not agree that any new/ 29 allocations should be made, >> the next size above /32 should be /28 >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> Mike >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net [ >> mailto:sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net >> <sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net>] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong >> Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 6:16 a.m. >> To: "(Tomohiro -INSTALLER- Fujisaki/藤崎 智宏)" >> Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net >> Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-111-v004: Request-based expansion of IPv6 >> default allocation size >> >> Yes, I still feel it misses my point completely. >> >> I have no problem with expanding the existing reservations which are >> bounded at /29 to /29. >> >> I don’t want to see us move the default allocation in the sparse >> allocation world to larger than /32. Larger than /32 should require >> additional justification for those blocks. >> >> Further, I don’t want to see us creating a default at a non-nibble >> boundary. For organizations that show need for larger than a /32, I would >> support a default of /28, but will continue to oppose a default expansion >> to /29. >> >> Owen >> >> On Sep 16, 2014, at 6:59 PM, (Tomohiro -INSTALLER- Fujisaki/藤崎 智宏) < >> fujis...@syce.net> wrote: >> >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > Thank you so much for your comments. >> > >> > Here, just I would like to confirm, >> > >> > | 1. unrestricted issuance of /29s to every >> organization regardless of needs. >> > >> > I've added some texts that LIRs would like to to obtain a additional >> > block larger than /32 need to demonstrate their needs in version 3 >> > (prop-111-v003). >> > >> >> From the mail I sent on 1st August: >> > | >> > | I submitted revised version of: >> > | “prop-111: Request-based expansion of IPv6 default allocation >> size" >> > | >> > | At the last policy sig discussion, I got concern about address >> > | allocation without any constraint, and some criteria should be added >> > | to expand the block size. >> > | >> > | In this revised proposal, I added the requirement to demonstrate >> > | need for both initial and subsequent allocations to reflect such >> opinions. >> > | >> > | For initial allocation: >> > | > The organizations >> > | > can receive up to /29 by providing utilization information of >> the whole >> > | > address space. >> > | >> > | For subsequent allocation: >> > | > LIRs that hold one or more IPv6 allocations are able to request >> > | > extension of each of these allocations up to a /29 without >> meeting >> > | > the utilization rate for subsequent allocation by explaining >> > | > how the whole address space will be used. >> > >> > # The wording is slightly different from latest (v004) version. >> > >> > Do you think corrent text is not enough? >> > >> > Yours Sincerely, >> > -- >> > Tomohiro Fujisaki >> > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management >> policy * >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sig-policy mailing list >> > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net >> > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy >> >> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management >> policy * >> _______________________________________________ >> sig-policy mailing list >> sig-policy@lists.apnic.net >> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy >> The information contained in this Internet Email message is intended >> for the addressee only and may contain privileged information, but not >> necessarily the official views or opinions of the New Zealand Defence >> Force. 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