Hi Jordi,
Here is the video link of the Proposals Webinar session
https://apnic.zoom.us/rec/share/tg3eS01aBZcmFUYd_cRJZlIYhtCUgIf4fuP6Cqx8fPzJKkt53spm3HnRgKDNqLYY.KgcLhk55AdqMmcTV
It is linked from the Policy SIG page here
https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/policy-sig/
Regards,
Sunny
On 7/09/2022 8:54 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy wrote:
> Hi Brett, > > > > I’m not saying that I reject a definition, what I’m
saying is that I > don’t think is needed, despite that I’m happy to
include it if we > agree on that, as can’t be other way, as this is the
way we write > proposals: understanding what the community want (not
just the > authors). > > > > I’ve not been able to see the video of the
discussion. Is it > available? Maybe the staff can provide it, so I can
better understand > all the points? > > > > Could you suggest a wording
of leasing according to you view, to see > if we can make it happen? > >
> > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 7/9/22,
14:41, "Brett O'Hara" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>
escribió: > > > > Hi Jordi, > > > > You have stated that you do need a
definition because "any form of > leasing is unacceptable", and yet I
was verbally assured at the APNIC > 54 Policy Proposals Webinar on the
25th of August, that several > examples of leasing were acceptable, but
not documented in the > proposal. My request for a definition in the
proposal was positively > received by the SIG and we left the issue to
the authors. If the > response from the authors is that the definition
is not necessary, I > can't see how we can endorse the proposal. > > > >
Regards, > > Brett > > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 8:30 PM JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via sig-policy > <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > Hi Satoru, all, > > We
haven't defined leasing, because it is common English term, not >
something specific to "addresses". I can understand that in other >
languages, it may not be the same, but because the policies are bound >
to the English language, we didn't feel the need to define it. > > In
fact, we had a similar discussion about that in LACNIC 6 months > ago,
and we decided to make a new version, which is the same as we >
published in APNIC. The point was to stress that "any form of > leasing"
is unacceptable. If you read that in the context of the > policy, it
starts, as you already mention "own infrastructure or > directly
connected customers". So, anything beyond that will be a > form of
leasing (never mind if you pay a fee for the addresses or > they are
free of charge, or you pay before you use them or > afterwards, etc.,
basically "anything not linked to connectivity"). > > I don't think the
implementation is a problem. We know that many > proposals come with
some challenges, however, the community, anyone, > can and should help
on that. Anyone knowing or getting a leasing > offer should communicate
about that. And by the way, I think will not > be so dificult to create
an automated way of detecting it, just by > ensuring that the users of
any APNIC block is directly connected to > the AS of the resource
holder. > > Regards, Jordi @jordipalet > > > > El 2/9/22, 7:15,
"Tsurumaki, Satoru" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>
escribió: > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am Satoru Tsurumaki from Japan Open
Policy Forum Steering Team.. > > I would like to share key feedback in
our community for prop-148, > based on a meeting we organised on 29th
Aug to discuss these > proposals. > > Many participants support the
intent of the proposal but felt that > implementation would be
challenging. > > (comment details) - It is undisputed that the current
policy allows > for the distribution of IP addresses according to the
actual demand > of one's own organization or directly connected
customers, and does > not allow for the leasing of IP addresses. - I
think this proposal > would be useful if the concept of leasing is
accurately > defined. - Leasing IP addresses that damage the accuracy of
whois > information should not be allowed, but I find it difficult to >
implement. > > > Regards, > > Satoru Tsurumaki / JPOPF Steering Team > >
2022年8月26日(金) 17:27 Shaila Sharmin <[email protected] >
<mailto:[email protected]>>: >> >> Dear SIG members, >> >> A
new version of the proposal "prop-148-v002: Clarification - >> Leasing
of Resources is not Acceptable" has been sent to the Policy >> SIG for
review. >> >> Information about earlier versions is available from: >>
>> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-148 >>
<http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-148> >> >> You are
encouraged to express your views on the proposal: >> >> - Do you support
or oppose the proposal? - Is there anything in the >> proposal that is
not clear? - What changes could be made to this >> proposal to make it
more effective? >> >> Please find the text of the proposal below. >> >>
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Ching-Heng APNIC Policy SIG Chairs >> >>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------- >
>> > prop-148-v002: Clarification - Leasing of Resources is not >
Acceptable >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------- >
>> > >> Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez >>
([email protected]) Amrita Choudhury >>
([email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>) >> Fernando
Frediani ([email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>) >> >> >>
1. Problem statement -------------------- RIRs have been conceived >> to
manage, allocate and assign resources according to need, in such >> a
way that a LIR/ISP has addresses to be able to directly connect >> its
customers based on justified need. Addresses are not, >> therefore, a
property with which to trade or do business. >> >> When the
justification of the need disappears or changes, for >> whatever
reasons, the expected thing would be to return said >> addresses to the
RIR, otherwise according to Section 4.1. (“The >> original basis of the
delegation remains valid”) and 4.1.2. (“Made >> for a specific purpose
that no longer exists, or based on >> information that is later found to
be false or incomplete”) of the >> policy manual, APNIC is not enforced
to renew the license. An >> alternative is to transfer these resources
using the appropriate >> transfer policy. >> >> If the leasing of
addresses is authorized, contrary to the >> original spirit of the
policies and the very existence of the RIRs, >> the link between
connectivity and addresses disappears, which also >> poses security
problems, since, in the absence of connectivity, the >> resource holder
who has received the license to use the addresses >> does not have
immediate physical control to manage/filter them, >> which can cause
damage to the entire community. >> >> Therefore, it should be made
explicit in the Policies that the >> Internet Resources should not be
leased “per se”, but only as part >> of a direct connectivity service.
>> >> The existing policies of APNIC are not explicit about that, >>
however current policies do not regard the leasing of addresses as >>
acceptable, if they are not an integral part of a connectivity >>
service. Specifically, the justification of the need would not be >>
valid for those blocks of addresses whose purpose is not to >> directly
connect customers of an LIR/ISP, and consequently the >> renewal of the
annual license for the use of the addresses would >> not be valid
either. Sections 3.2.6. (Address ownership), 3.2.7. >> (Address
stockpiling) and 3.2.8. (Reservations not supported) of >> the policy
manual, are keys on this issue, but an explicit >> clarification is
required. >> >> >> 2. Objective of policy change
----------------------------- Despite >> the fact that the intention in
this regard underlies the entire >> Policy Manual text and is thus
applied to justify the need for >> resources, this proposal makes this
aspect explicit by adding the >> appropriate clarifying text. >> >> >>
3. Situation in other regions ----------------------------- In >> other
RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not authorized either and >> since it
is not explicit in their policy manuals either, this >> proposal will be
presented as well. >> >> Nothing is currently mentioned in RIPE about
this and it is not >> acceptable as a justification of the need. In
AFRINIC and LACNIC, >> the staff has confirmed that address leasing is
not considered as >> valid for the justification. In ARIN it is not
considered valid as >> justification of need. >> >> A similar proposal
is under discussion in LACNIC and ARIN. >> >> >> 4. Proposed policy
solution --------------------------- 5.8. >> Leasing of Internet Number
Resources >> >> In the case of Internet number resources delegated by
APNIC or an >> NIR, the justification of the need implies the need to
use on their >> own infrastructure and/or network connectivity services
provided >> directly to customers. As a result, any form of IP address
leasing >> is unacceptable, nor does it justify the need, if it is not
part of >> a set of services based, at the very least, on direct
connectivity. >> Even for networks that are not connected to the
Internet, leasing >> of IP addresses is not permitted, because such
sites can request >> direct assignments from APNIC or the relevant NIR
and, in the case >> of IPv4, use private addresses or arrange market
transfers. >> >> APNIC may proactively investigate those cases and also
initiate >> the investigation in case of reports by means of a form,
email >> address or other means developed by APNIC. >> >> If any form of
leasing, regardless of when the delegation has been >> issued, is
confirmed by an APNIC investigation, it will be >> considered a policy
violation and revocation may apply against any >> account holders who
are leasing or using them for any purposes not >> specified in the
initial request. >> >> >> 5. Advantages / Disadvantages
----------------------------- >> Advantages: Fulfilling the objective
above indicated and making the >> policy clear. >> >> Disadvantages:
None. >> >> >> 6. Impact on resource holders
----------------------------- None. >> >> >> 7. References -------------
>>
https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2022/ARIN_prop_308_v2/
>>
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> >> >
https://politicas.lacnic.net/politicas/detail/id/LAC-2022-2/language/en
>
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