On Tue, 2022-11-15 at 08:41 +0000, Steen Huib (TT-CS/XCT1.2) wrote: > > I can see your point and I was thinking about a solution. Are > there any automated tests or can we create automated tests (not > specifically on one location as you would need all equipment) > to secure quality?
Can you also see what this sounds like for a developer? Sounds like: Gimme, gimme gimme! The sigrok.org project communicated in the past its coding style and portability goal, and over time collected a code base with a VCS history. Reviews were done in public, for obvious reasons. Any number of users could have participated, picked up something, and helped carry on. That's how in the past new developers came to the project, to balance others' going away or changing interests. In recent times I hear more often: Gimme (a config for my editor). Gimme (a linter). Gimme (a builder). Gimme (a tester). Gimme (pretty web UI forms). Gimme (more guidance). Gimme (less knowledge to keep). Gimme (lower barriers). I'm tired of these requests which essentially keep communicating that developers need to do much more before a user could even start to think considering to maybe start thinking about spending a minute to see if there could be a possibility of maybe helping a little. Are today's developers really that dependent on tools and processes that they are helpless in their absence? See the current ML thread. How severely was the issue raised? How many have spoken, and what have they spoken? "Let's wait more" or "let's see what we can do" or "let's see what we can think of what they need to do"? And how many stood there and watched? _That's_ the thing that gets me so raging, the silent majority that keeps sitting and watching. Maybe shake their heads, thinking they'd know better, but not lending a hand. There must be a better way to get the work done than keep watching. The problem with the very automated test setup that you describe above is: It's not just about connecting several devices somewhere. Before that, you need to have them, and nobody does. Neither do developers. Then none of the setup could be automated. We are dealing with measurement gear and external entities that get communicated to while we neither can stimulate nor control them. Or not in useful ways, as during development you keep visiting different features or human/device interactions that were not covered before (if you got any of this). So "it's always a new situation". Try to do that for some of these devices, create and maintain test jigs and come up with automated test setups and the effort exceeds by far what a project can do that is run in a few developers' spare time. Then have another look at the hardware list https://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware and re-consider. And keep in mind that whatever you start with, users will complain that _their_ personal interest wasn't covered. :( Or am I getting your question wrong, and it wasn't about automated tests of devices and their operation, but was about something else? Then the above was not strictly related but still applies in all other contexts of this thread and the interaction between the project's participants. I personally don't believe in many of these automated tools which some people love to shift their responsibility to. I do believe that humans know much better than machines what's appropriate to them. Let's get back to the review of submitted code. What's the effort to create a checker? Some projects have them, but they also got a lot more active members. The sigrok.org project doesn't have these, and I believe it doesn't need them. And what are the odds of submitters running them? And taking their output serious, and act upon them? And still the presence of a tool does not release humans from the necessity to use their brains during action. When in doubt, it's still the human who decides. In the case of source code, when a human cannot see what's happening, or tell what the consequences are, then how is the tool supposed to help? I'd wish there would be more people listening or watching what developers say or do, form a common body of growing knowledge, share the workload, help getting things done. If you want such a tool, consider creating one, but don't "expect the developers to ship one to you". If others want that tool, too, then join forces and create one. Whatever you do, there still is no need to wait for a developer to do it. Need I explicitly state that this is a personal view of mine as one of the active sigrok users? And that I'm not a maintainer? Because some (many?) still haven't gotten this. If you want the project's official take on the subject then ask a maintainer. virtually yours Gerhard Sittig -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. _______________________________________________ sigrok-devel mailing list sigrok-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sigrok-devel
