Hello Steven
Actually it was me not Neville who wrote the quote that you open with
below. And perhaps I wasn't clear in my purpose. My question should
have been "What method is used to make these products that are at
least 50% colloidal?" If they are not MSP then how are they made?
Its something I've wondered about for a long time.
Incidently, Ron Gibbs conclusions can be viewed in a whole new light
when you realise that he didnt actually know what he was studying. At
the time of his reseach the techniques used to analyse CS were so
underdeveloped that he thought he was examining 'colloidal' silver
when in fact he was examining ionic silver. Thats why he makes the
rather odd statement that the best CS is 'clear' on a website thats
promoting a product that clearly isn't.
You'll find this revealed in the FAQ's on silver-colloids website in
answer to a question about "Why is mesosilver colored?" The answer is
worth reading in full.
David.
From: Steven Foss <[email protected]>
Date: 18 September 2008 9:58:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: CS>Re: silver-colloids.com
Dear Neville,
You wrote:
"Looking at the reports on silver-colloids.com it appears that the
products that are classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic
silver levels. I assume these are the products most likely to be high
voltage but I could be wrong."
High Voltage DC or High Voltage AC is not the reason for the
"classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic silver levels." It
may have more to do with "high voltage" sales tactics.
Products classified as Colloidal deal with particle size range and
how the particles are held in this system.
A Colloid is in essence a type of mechanical mixture where one
substance is dispersed evenly throughout another. It is not a
solution. The particle size is between one nanometer (1/1000 of a
micron) and 1 micron. Fog, Smoke, Red Stained Glass, Milk, and
Paint for example are Colloids. Because of this dispersal, some
colloids have the appearance of solutions. A hydrosol is a colloid
with water as the dispersing medium.
The website www.silver-colloids.com which appears to be an
information site is in fact owned by a commercial colloidal silver
manufacturer and seller. His retail site links extensively to this
website to back up his claims that EICS is not Colloidal Silver.
Here is my opinion:
The main purpose of silver-colloids.com is to slam EICS
(Commercially available EICS) and Colloidal Silver Generators to
sell his bottle colloidal silver product.
The website makes some provacative statements:
"If the product is clear, then it is ionic silver, not a true
silver colloid,"
(The late Professor Ronald J. Gibbs, of the Center for Colloidal
Science at the University of Delaware in his book,Silver Colloids,
Do They Work?, wrote, "The highest quality Colloidal Silver is
colorless." If a yellow color is present in the product it is
probably indicating that some other unwanted substance is present
causing the color, or that the particles are too large, either way
indicating the colloidal silver product is not acceptable nor is
the highest quality.)
and elsewhere on this website:
"We do not provide advice on making colloidal silver at home. Many
companies sell colloidal silver generators and dozens of web sites
provide information for experimenters and home hobbyists. All the
machines sold for making colloidal silver use an electrolysis
process and make ionic silver. There are no machines sold that are
capable of making true colloidal silver."
Harvard University Physics department considers Electrically
produced Silver Ions as Colloidal Silver.
I found this bit of information at the Harvard Physics Website in
connection with a lesson. Although I did not have permission to
access their homepage on the Colloidal Silver Generator (and its
construction), please note below:
from http://www.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/remediation/
Silver%20Ceramic/CS.htm
"The present success of the CS (Colloidal Silver) generator is
largely attributable to the high quality of the new electrical
unit, which converts 240AC to 24DC. What is indicated here is a
simple cost analysis of producing this kind of CS.
The concentrated CS generator shown on the home page is currently
utilizing two flasks, of 2.4 liters each. However additional
flasks can be wired into the system, up to eight in all. Given
that each flask contains about 500 ppm of CS, this will saturate
sixteen candles. So, 8 flasks x 16 candles per flask = 128
candles, the daily production of concentrated CS.
Several people have asked whether the flask size can be increased,
so as to get bigger volumes of CS, and in my view this may be
tricky. For example, if the flask size is doubled then the wet
surface area of electrodes must be increased, quite clearly. And
the DC voltage would also need to be increased. But at what DC
voltage would the system require safety apparatus? While we feel
confident that the 24 volts DC for the generator is perfectly safe,
at additional voltage would tend toward an unsafe system. Would a
4.8 liter flask require double the voltage, something like 48 volts
DC? And would this require the enclosure of the leads to the
circuit, so as to avoid a shock to the operator?
Post Script of 23 April: If the producers are purchasing the
concentrated colloidal silver, for saturation of their filters,
then this should be carefully sourced. It may be considered best
to know the form of the silver, resulting within the filter, in
case further studies on these are at some point considered
desireable. In general, however, silver is considered to be among
the most benign of substances, no harmful health effects associated."
I guess someone should inform the Harvard Physics department they
are not producing "True Colloidal Silver."
As to www.silver-colloids.com
I won't go into a line by line analysis of the website's "Reign of
Error." I would be typing for days. (The owner has a background in
engineering and physics at two respect institutions of higher
learning.)
This individual denies that an Ion is a particle, atomic or
otherwise. He seems to ignore the accepted definitions used world
wide in teaching institutions as defined by the worldwide authority
for Chemistry, Science, and Physics, The International Union of
Pure and Applied Chemistry.
The IUPAC Compendium of Chemical Terminology (sometimes called the
Gold Book, recognized as the world's standard and final word on
such definitions) does not share this "definition" for the terms
"Ion," "Sol" (as in hydrosol), "Colloids" or "Colloidal."
The Gold Book is online at:
http://old.iupac.org/publications/compendium/index.html (if you
prefer to look up the definitions oneself.)
An Ion by definition is a particle.
For Ion, you will find the following:
"ion, An atomic or molecular particle having a net electric charge.
Source:PAC, 1982, 54, 1533 (Glossary of terms used in nuclear
analytical chemistry (Provisional)) on page 1545."
(This is a direct quote from The IUPAC Compendium of Chemical
Terminology.)
Compare to:
http://www.silvercolloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion
(below is an abbreviated quote for space)
"silver ion (Ag+) – An ion of silver is formed when a single
electron is removed from a silver atom causing the ion to have a
positive charge. While an ion possesses ionic charge owing to the
missing electron, it is not considered an atom of silver with a
charge."
(Huh?)
"ionic silver - A solution consisting of water and silver ions
(dissolved silver). Contains no silver particles and does not
exhibit a Tyndall Effect."
EICS has exhibited Tyndall Effect for all the years I have made and
tested for a Tyndall Effect. I have repeatedly tested on this and
other forms of Colloidal Silver (mild Silver Protein, ect).
Colloids exhibit Tyndall Effects, Solutions, such as water
(solvent) and salt or sugar (solute) do not.
On the www.silver-colloids.com:
"Because colloidal silver is in many ways a very effective health
supplement, it is important to understand what is real and what is
bogus. This site is maintained by XXXX XXXXX who welcomes input and
comments from the scientific community. Mr. XXXX is founder and
principal scientist of the Colloidal Science Laboratory, Inc. where
research on gold, silver and other metal colloids is conducted."
The above neglected to mention ownership of www.purestcolloids.com
(an online seller of Colloidal Silver, and in addition to the
ownership Colloidal Science Laboratory, Inc. used to verify his
claims). A conflict of Interest?
This silver-colloids.com owner used to post the silver list back in
2001, one can draw one's own conclusions as to his motives then and
now.
This individual posted about EICS was useless and not absorbed,
causes argyria, etc. (Using his hypothesis, I should not be able to
absorb Copper Ions from my food and thus have copper-deficiency
anemia.)
If you are interested in a "debate" from the old Silver List
archives, this is all that remains online is at:
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/silver.html (a commercial site and
competitor to the above)
(However one should verify these the original posts. I believe this
would require the kindness of Wayne and his personal Silver List
archive. I would be interested in seeing the entire posts, dating
from around Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:28:47, I always compare original
sources to online sites.),
For a another's view on metal ions transport into the body, see:
http://www.health2us.com/transport.htm
Either websites make for interesting reading as to the "the silver
ion issue" listed above. Both seem to refute the allegation that
Silver Ions do not exist inside or are absorbed by the body.
Again, my apologies for the length, Neville and the list. (My
apologies to Mike D. for the headaches my long posts and email
server causes him)
Regards, Steve
PS I found this on Yahoo Education as a sponsored link to,
"Colloidal Silver Facts"
Laboratory analysis reveals the truth about colloidal silver
products. Here are the facts on silver protein, ionic silver, and
true silver colloids. Don't be fooled by the hype. www.silver-
colloids.com"
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