These tunneling burns might be likened to those received by people who have been struck by lightening, although is on a much reduced scale.
Dan On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Dan Nave <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't have the patience to follow all the arguments here but I > believe it would be appropriate to say the following: > > The burning from the applied DC is not from heat produced around the > electrodes, or from corrosive chemicals. It is from the electrons > finding a low resistant path and concentrating along that path, > damaging the tissues. > > Evening and spreading out the resistance along the electrode as well > as periodic repositioning of electrodes and polarity swapping, as well > as limiting voltage or current, seems to reduce this occurrence. > > Dan > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Marshall Dudley <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Ode Coyote wrote: >>> >>> >>> By what mechanism could low voltage current travel in a liquid >>> environment other than ionic electro-chemicals? >>> Even neurotransmitters work that way...just higher speed chained reactions >>> is all. >>> High voltage establishes ionization paths. >>> >>> Even Microwaves designed to cook things don't penetrate very far and >>> probably do most of the cooking via thermal conduction just like any other >>> oven. >>> [No, they don't heat from the inside out ] >> >> Whether it cooks from the inside out or not depends on the relative >> absorption of the layers. An egg, or meat that is covered with dry breading >> will actually cook from the inside out because the shell or breading absorbs >> almost no radiation and thus will not heat up except from the thermal >> conduction from the inside. >>> >>> Rife was observing effects on a microscope slide...very thin. >>> His tech may well have worked on larger samples [people] and he not really >>> know why. >>> Unless his electromagnetic beams were up there in the x ray frequency >>> ranges that could make it between water molecules. ..Ionizing Induction? >> >> The frequencies are too low to be ionizing. The electromagnetic wave does >> not have to be of x-ray frequency, it induces current into the body, just >> like a zapper or pulser does. It could be through of as a pulser which >> covers a larger area AND is frequency tunable. >>> >>> What does "ionizing radiation" mean? Ionize "what" into what...how ? >> >> Ionize means sufficient energy in a particle to cause the an electron to get >> knocked out of its orbit, making the atom it comes from a positive ion, and >> where it ends up a negative ion. Particles of such energy can break up DNA >> as well. >>> >>> Even most *nuclear* radiation is stopped by thin wet surfaces. >> >> Depends on what it is. X-Rays and gamma rays can penetrate anywhere from >> inches to feet of most substances. Alphas can be stopped by a sheet of >> paper and might travel an inch in air, betas will travel further, maybe 1/4 >> inch of paper or a couple of feet in air depending on the energy. Neutrons >> are odd, they will travel through inches of lead, but be stopped by a >> fraction of an inch of heavy water. >>> >>> I have yet to see any Zapper maker that has made the connection between >>> how a Zapper works, how electro-plating works and how a CS generator works, >>> when all of them are the exact same machine, just applied to jars of >>> different substances in water and using different metals as electrodes. >> >> Because that is not how they work. If it were, then they would not work for >> those that use the damp cloth over the electrode like I do, and the pulser >> which works the same way would not work either. >>> >>> Disregard *what* they do for a moment and look at *how* they ALL do it. >>> What makes a Zapper different? Nothing. >> >> Different than what? >>> >>> Why a DC offset? Because AC would just chemically cancel itself if the >>> effect of the polarity change is slower than how fast the chemical change >>> can leave the area by blood flow in that surface. >>> >> Actually that is not true. I have done electrolysis on salt water many >> times using AC, it works fine, nothing cancels out, and I get just as much >> chlorine and hydrogen as when I used DC, except that they were mixed instead >> of separate. >>> >>> That burning of skin is not from heat. >> >> That is correct, that is why one should use the wet towel, so you don't get >> burned or exposed to the corrosive chemicals. >>> >>> If it were a result of current flow like happens in a wire with nothing >>> but electrons bouncing around, the entire circuit would be at least nearly >>> the same temperature. >>> Try this: Put an analog milliam-meter in line with an electrode and see >>> if the current has a perceivable rise rate as electro-chemicals build up >>> concentration to transport more electrons around as ions in ionic chemical >>> compounds. >>> If you can *see* it go up, it's SLOW and wires don't act that way. I >>> don't think even a resistor slows the electrons down, it just blocks some of >>> them and turns the impact energy into heat. >> >> Electrons actually speed up in a typical resistor. It, as you say blocks >> some of them, so the others have to move faster to maintain the same >> current. >>> >>> If that were "heat" burn, a thermometer made for pipples would peg. The >>> skin can take 120 degrees F for extended periods of time, cooling itself off >>> with sweat evaporation. >>> See any sweat? [Well, given that the electrolyte used is so much like >>> sweat, how could you tell...concept firm but probably not observable... BUT >>> even then the PH would change and if it were nothing but sweat/electrolyte, >>> unchanged... it wouldn't. Check it out. ] >> >> You are beating a dead horse. Burning from exposed electrodes is NOT from >> heat. That is why one should use a wet towel over the electrode, it prevents >> the burns, but the zapper still works fine even though the products no >> longer make it to the skin. In view of that fact, you are actually arguing >> my analysis and don't realize it. >>> >>> Ode >>> >>> >>> >>> At 11:46 AM 4/26/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>> Resonant frequencies will disrupt DNA. This has been show with Rife >>>> technology. A square wave is the fourier sum of all multiples of that >>>> frequency. Thus a square wave will cause the DNA of pathogens to vibrate >>>> at >>>> their resonant frequency and break apart. Once broken apart DNA tends to >>>> drift back together and rejoin unless there is an electric field present to >>>> force separation of the parts. That is how the zappers work. The >>>> principle >>>> is the same, but the method of getting the quasi DC field is different >>>> between the Beck and Clark zappers. >>>> >>>> The Clark zapper uses a DC offset to give the field, that is it uses >>>> pulsing DC. The Beck unit uses a low frequency so that the parts are drawn >>>> sufficiently far apart that they cannot find each other during one half >>>> cycle of the wave. >>>> >>>> I don't think the electrochemical byproducts forming at the poles are >>>> significant, since they would form on the surface of the skin, and the >>>> zappers work quite well on internal parasites which would never ever see >>>> these products. >>>> >>>> Marshall >>>> >>>> Ode Coyote wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don't think zappers actually "electrify" the blood. >>>>> What they do is manufacture electrochemical byproducts according to >>>>> what pole is ionizing [??] salt at that location. >>>>> One pole Sodium Hydroxide, alkalizing there...the other Hypochlorus >>>>> acid. [similar to MMS] >>>>> If I'm getting "Positive Offset" correctly...that would be pulsed DC. >>>>> The frequency of the DC pulse would then be an on/off [50/50 ? ]"duty >>>>> cycle" to allow those chemicals to migrate faster than they build up in >>>>> the >>>>> skin causing chemical burns. >>>>> A slower pulse would build up more before the blood in surface >>>>> capillaries washes it in deeper and dilutes it...pretty much a matter of >>>>> comfort level. >>>>> >>>>> Voltage doesn't matter, it's current delivered over an area [current >>>>> density again] >>>>> With a higher voltage, you can deliver more current over a smaller less >>>>> conductive area. >>>>> How much at a given voltage depends on the conductivity of the >>>>> electrolyte on the pads or how wet and salty your skin and the size of the >>>>> electrodes and how far apart they are on the body. >>>>> I'd like to see a variable resistor or a pulse width modulator that can >>>>> go to maybe a 20/80 duty cycle to get control of that over all current. >>>>> >>>>> You can get red itchy skin [mild chemical burning] at only 1.2 >>>>> volts...or no burning at 24 volts depending on how the electrodes are >>>>> configured. >>>>> >>>>> Ode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 02:13 PM 4/24/2010 +0100, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been seriously considering buying a zapper and am toying between >>>>>> these two. I'd really welcome any comments. Is there any advantage to >>>>>> having >>>>>> the dual frequency? I can see the timer might be a good idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dual-freqency-of-30KHZ-2-5KHZ_W0QQitemZ150430846490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item2306608e1a>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dual-freqency-of-30KHZ-2-5KHZ_W0QQitemZ150430846490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item2306608e1a >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dr-Hulda-Clark-with-built-in-electronic-timer_W0QQitemZ150433257357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item230685578d>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dr-Hulda-Clark-with-built-in-electronic-timer_W0QQitemZ150433257357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item230685578d >>>>>> >>>>>> I've also seen a 12v zapper. Is that one any better? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice would be really welcome >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Kirsteen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. >>>>> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> Archives: >>> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>>>> >>>>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >
