At 08:44 AM 7/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
## First, let me say that you have developed an exceptionally good
generator. You are on my links page and I will now have to update it.
[in light of the many things I've seen on this list, I need to update the
whole darned thing]
Hi Ken,
Thanks for the compliment. Was going to ask you to update your page
regarding our info. The information you have on your site about us has been
changed for a long time. We're maturing too as we get more info and
experience so some of our original information is outdated.
BTW, Trem You may want to redo over your tech page so it will explain
your new philosophy on stirring, color and Tyndal more accurately.
Good idea. Just haven't had enough time. I'm sure you know how it is,
wearing too many hats to take care of all the details.
Because of the set point I use, mine won't go much beyond 17PPM as per
the meter by doing a reset procedure.
This isn't clear to me. Do you have a set point and that's it? Or is it
adjustable by the user? I assume you're speaking of an external meter like
the Hanna DiST1 to do the PPM measurement. Correct?
I can set the initial point higher..but not with a switch.
What do you mean "but not with a switch"? I don't get what you're saying here.
I haven't because of the 'iffyness' at the higher concentrations where the
CS will stay clear most of the time but sometimes will turn pale yellow
after a few days. [Has anyone figured out, specifically, why this happens
sometimes and not always?]
I have seen it occasionally get a very pale yellow cast after some time
when it reads over 20-25 PPM. It usually stays clear however.
I use a spacing of 1 3/8 inches set parallel and whetted rod length of
3 inches on a 12 gauge rod along with a shut down set point of 6 volts.
current set at .8 Ma...8 oz batches.
We use 1 3/4" and 4+" wetted depth. Our shutoff is variable depending on
customer setting. We encourage them to not make it over 15 PPM, however it
can be made as high as 25 PPM. The adjustable control range is from about
5 to 25 PPM.
If I bend the rod ends away from each other, the times and concentrations
increase.
Same thing with our unit ..if one widens the electrode spacing, PPM
strength and run time increase. As a side note, as the electrode
deteriorates, the same effect is observed.
Using preheated water [90-100 deg] without resetting, [1.5 hours average
process time] I get a fairly consistent 8-9PPM, very clear with almost no
Tyndal.
Using cool water [70-75 deg] heating, I get a consistent 10-11 PPM ,
clear, with a fairly heavy Tyndal. [1.5 hours ave]
Using cool water without heating, I get 10-11 PPM with a small black
deposit formation on the bottom of the container..which makes a good case
for gentle stirring either thermal or mechanical. Fairly heavy Tyndal [2
hours ave]
A hint folks: Never use the electrodes to stir the water.
We don't notice any deposits in the bottom. However when the unit is
lifted off the vessel after long runs the anode sometimes lets some fluff
fall off, so we recommend folks filter with a coffee filter that has been
pre-washed to help prevent agglomeration. Using the filter could be a
culprit in the occasional yellowing. I suspect so, but would rather see
clear CS than have anything be visible in the water. If we filter and stay
under 15 PPM, no agglomeration is ever seen. I think stirring really does
do the job
I have to thank Ole Bob for the efforts he expended doing the initial work
with stirring. I know Fred also stirs but I think it's with an aquarium
pump, not a motor.
We may have different meters too, [Hanna DiST1] so the comparative
numbers are up for question and my meter reads about a 3rd of what my lab
reports say. What's the real scoop? I don't know.
We use the Hanna PWT. It's range is 0-99.9 uS with 2 percent of full scale
accuracy. So it's only off by as much as 2 PPM. And of course we're
talking about measurements down at the low end of the range. The Hanna
Dist1 is a total dissolved solids device and reads 0-1999 with 2 percent
accuracy, so you can see it could be off by as much as 20 PPM. Not
accurate enough in my mind. And I think the PWT is a better measuring
device because it measures conductance instead of dissolved solids.
A heater is easily made by cutting a 1 inch hole in a can and placing it
upside down on a night light. I looks really cool too! Hand stirring
takes a bit of attention. Stirring devices are far more complicated for
the home brewer. [Cudos to your new generator! I certainly don't disagree
that mechanical stirring is the way to go..unless, perhaps ,using a
rotating disc electrode]
I tried the 1/4 inch x .013 inches silver ribbon but found it too flimsy
to maintain a consistent distance, difficult to clean without distorting
and difficult to make easily replaceable or swapable with other metals.
Also, because of edge discharge characteristics, the flat ribbon doesn't
have an evenly distributed current density. Even round wire will tend to
discharge more ions at the ends.
But, in effect, flat ribbon may discharge somewhat faster because of all
those edges. We both get about 3 PPM per hour?
We recommend using 16 ounces of water so our times are different than
yours. We get about 4 PPM per hour in a pint.
You don't get variations with water temperature? Cold house vs warm house?
I haven't observed any obvious differences. However we don't heat the
water, so room temp. water variations shouldn't be discernible in the
overall scheme.
Anyhow, Trem
Good job!
Thanks again Ken.
Trem
www.silvergen.com
Constant Current Colloid Generators
At 07:02 PM 7/9/00 -0700, you wrote:
Hi List,
Not to argue with you Ken but our auto shutoff generator makes crystal
clear CS up to 20-25 PPM as measured with a Hanna PWT using the
mechanical stirring motor we have incorporated into our newest
generator. The CS does not get any color and has an almost imperceptible
Tyndall effect. And it's a lot easier than having to heat water or rig
up some kind of thermal hot plate. Most people aren't up for that. Many
experimenter types are but I think most people aren't.
And, cooling water that has been heated is really problematic. What
about people that live in cold or warm houses? How hot is hot to start
with. How cool does it have to get before thermal currents cease to
help, etc. If we're looking for repeatability and ease of use, a motor
with a constant stirring speed and a constant current regulator with auto
shutoff is about as good as you can get with LVDC process.
Sorry to toot our own horn but that's how I see it.
Trem
www.silvergen.com
Constant Current Colloid Generators
At 09:44 PM 7/9/00 -0700, you wrote:
While mechanical stirring does seem to get very good results, thermal
stirring via convection currents helps a lot and is a lot simpler.
Either preheat the water to 80 -100 degrees and let cool while running
the generator, or start with room temp water and place it on a small
heater such as a 4 watt night light bulb.
Letting hot water cool while in process tends to give that light
Tyndal Effect but limits the max concentration [with my auto off unit]
to about 8-9 PPM as read by a PPM meter.
Check out
www.colloidal-silver.com
and click on the merchants directory for a fairly complete list of
generator makers.
The only one I recommend against is the last...Utopia
They are very proud of the brown sludge their generator makes for some
reason. They use 3 nine volt batteries, 2 silver rods and nothing
else. I think they recommend using sea salt as well. A no no.
With their set up, there's also a possibility of getting some lead and
tin into the mix as the wires have exposed solder on the ends. Not
extremely likely, but possible.
You can do something similar for a lot less. You can make fairly good
CS with such a unit but it takes a lot of care and experimentation. I
doubt you will be able to go stronger than 3 to 5 PPM without making
yellow to brown colored CS.
k...@czen
At 03:28 PM 7/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
Okay. What is the Tyndall effect? All I could find is that Tyndall(John)
was an Irish physicist. Also, where might one purchase a mechanism for
stirring?
>Is it John?
>
>Stirring really helps distribute the ionic cloud away from the anode
as the
>atoms are being released during production. If you can get them
disbursed
>in the water with stirring, they tend not to agglomerate. It makes a
much
>better product. It will be crystal clear with no color if you keep it
>under 15-20 PPM. Will also have a minimal Tyndall effect.
>
>Trem
>www.silvergen.com
>Constant Current Colloid Generators
>
>
>At 03:02 PM 7/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>Is stirring necessary?
>>
>>
>>
>> >JO\ohn;
>> >
>> >Make your own genterator, all you need is a DC power source, a digital
>> >multimeter, stirring motor, and two pieces of #14 sliver .999 or
better and
>> >some clip leads.
>> >
>> >Contact me off list and I can probvide more detailed info.
>> >
>> >"Ole Bob"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
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>>
