Ivan and all
I have been trying to follow, stay silent and build a mental picture of a
mechanical structure that incorporates all my observations.
I have no formal training in chemistry. The official language [redox]
seems backwards to me so I won't speak it. I can barely think it after
struggling to turn it all around. Most of what is being said sails over my
head.
All this is just a simplistic picture....ideas with a tilt toward what
'could' be happening as opposed to what can't happen...{I have no idea
about what can't happen}
There seems to be a shifting role that free oxygen (O1?) plays in this
scenerio of particle size and crystal color...perhaps offset by polarized
water molecules.
For instance:
A large cluster/crystal has a yellowish/brownish/reddish color that will
deposit on the glass of a container over time. H2O2 instantly dissolves
this color making it vanish.
Fresh ozonated water seems to enhance the formation of colorful particles
and silver oxide deposits. [releasing O1 atoms that combine with the O1
componant of the colored particle, making a stable O2 and a pure
metallic..maybe 'recharged'.. particle ???]
H2O2 very quickly cleans this black stuff from the electrodes.
Under close well lit observation, deposits...if on the bottom of the glass
container as CS is being made with still/unstirred water, deposits seen
with light shining 'through' them...sometimes display a color shift from
white to faint yellow to brown to black, depending on the distance from
each electrode. [White on one side under the electrode, black on the other
side under the electrode and shades of color from faint yellow to dark
brown in between.]
My thinking is:
Particles grow from ions but those [+]ions must somehow be associated with
[-]oxygen, either (1) directly associated with free oxygen, building a
crystal that includes some oxygen which gives it , both, the ability to
grow in size and it's color. [not exactly like a pigment, but more like a
shaped crystal face that refracts/reflects/absorbs light differently than a
pure metal]
Couple this scenerio with varying degrees of scenerio #2 where the more
hydration that takes place, the less effect free oxygen atoms [O1?] have
and the smaller/paler the particle is.
[***???] O1 oxygen could come from charging dissolved ozone [O3],
charging dissolved O2 and or some initial production from an electrode
before it stabilizes into O2????
.. scenerio # (2)
[+]ions are associated with the [-] end of a polarized water molecule
[hydration?] which also protects the cluster from being affected by free
oxygen. ["this site is taken"] which also pulls the silver electrons toward
the surface making the particle more repellent to other particles and the
ions less repellent to each other within the particle. The polarized water
basically holds the charged ions together and isolates them from other ions?
Ion production rates and water activity [stirring and temperature] do seem
to be related in how large a particle agglomerates. If a high rate of ion
production is used with vigerous stirring, or a low production rate with
gentle stirring [thermal currents and/or hot active water], clear strong
CS is still possible... sometimes with little TE. Hydration takes time
and opportunity?
High ion production rates without stirring almost always makes a colored
CS beyond about 5-10 PPM.. [More prevalent when using cool water even at
low rates] It may even 'appear' to be clear because there aren't that many
particles there... and some of the ions did get hydrated.
Low ion production rates give off a white ion cloud.
High production rates give off that famous golden cloud [see
***???]...water being equal.
In scenerio #1, a yellow, more massive, less charged particle [internally
partially neutralized] can stick to a container and particles/crystals to
each other making a pretty thick coating. Perhaps Browian motion
contributes to a collision energetic enough to do this. [The CS water
itself becomes clear because most or all of the large colored particles are
stuck to the glass]
Ken
At 11:43 PM 11/29/00 +1300, you wrote:
>Not at hand Marshall,
>
>But if atomic ions are all that are produced at the anode, then any
>clusters must be composed of these. The fractal clusters as postulated
>in 'An introduction to Colloid Science' By Hunter, are a loose and
>fairly open arrangement from what I can gather, and not at all like
>dense metallic crystals. Whether electron sharing occurs I don't know,
>but I should think that the electron orbits are offset towards the
>centre of the cluster, in reaction to the negative polar part of water
>molecules which will be arranged around them. In this way, it is likely
>that the centre of the cluster is more positive than the outside.
>
>Ivan.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2000 04:47
>Subject: Re: CS>development work
>
>
>> Ivan Anderson wrote:
>>
>> > Ken, if you have been following my discussions at all, you will
>realise
>> > that I believe that clusters do indeed have a charge equal to the
>number
>> > of atoms it is comprised of. Seeing that electrons cannot swim...
>> >
>>
>> I agree if the cluster has all atoms on the surface. But for clusters
>that
>> have atoms hidden internally, I am not convinced that those internal
>> contribute to the charge. Do you have any references that address
>this? I
>> don't.
>>
>> Marshall
>
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.215 / Virus Database: 101 - Release Date: 16/11/2000
>
>
>--
>The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
>
>To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
>[email protected] -or- [email protected]
>with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line.
>
>To post, address your message to: [email protected]
>Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
>List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
>
>
