So, given no dissolved oxygen and some way to isolate oxygen coming off an electrode..or neutalize it by binding it up in oxides very quickly...one could make a pure ionic silver. Given a highly oxygenated water, one could make a pure colloidal silver if a way is found to prevent making snowflakes. Has anyone using a bubbler discovered that the TE is brighter than when using the same setup being stirred? [or left alone] How about bubbling with pure oxygen? [then, say, xenon or other inert gas?] ...humm,,,something about 'monoatomic'....
PS At no point did the process of making H2O2/silver snowflakes display any color what-so-ever. I thought all was going well toward crystal clear CS till the generator didn't shut down in several hours [virtually nill conductive ionic content] and I shook the container in the sunlight...very pretty! So, what does that do to the 'particle size/ color' theory with various sizes being the only factor contributing to various colors. Ken At 12:12 PM 6/19/02 -0400, you wrote: >This is my best guess on this. No real research to back it up though. > >Fact: The silver particles have a charge, this keeps them separated so they don't >aggregate. >Fact: Silver is a catalyst that electrostatically attracts oxygen to it's surface. > >When O3 or H2O2 is added, the free monatomic oxygen quickly adheres to the >surface, canceling the charge though electron donation (kind of like an ionic >bond). > >The particle loses some or all of it's charge, and is no longer repelled by other >silver particles, so they succumb to the van d wall's force and aggregate >together. > >If that is true, then that should mean that boiling ones water to drive out >dissolved oxygen may decrease particle size, or may make it a higher percentage >ionic. On the other hand, it may require monatomic oxygen to cause the >aggregation. > >Marshall > >Ode Coyote wrote: > >> On that note [speaking of snowflakes] >> I once tried using a small amount of H2O2 as a 'starter' to get the >> initial conductivity of DW up. [one teapoon of off the shelf 3% peroxide to >> 46 oz of water] The result was the unending formation of brilliant silver >> "snowflakes" similar to what you'd find in a paperweight or in metalflake >> paint. The conductivity of the water never exceeded 14us even after many >> many hours. >> For this and other reasons, I suspect that oxygen plays a role in the >> formation of silver crystals altering their shape along with their size and >> that the reflective or light scattering properties [color] may be related >> to the simultanious relationship of not only size, but the corresponding >> shape of a lattice structure which can be broken down with H2O2. Silver is >> silver in color, oxygen has no color, yet silver oxides are black. Could >> there be an incomplete oxide?..not so much a 'compound' but more like an >> alloy? >> H2O2 will blast a silver oxide apart..the black on an electrode vanishes >> very quickly. Could it not also be blasting an alloy apart? I might be >> crazy, but I see a relationship between color, particle [crystal vs flake] >> size and oxygen. >> The crystal shape of pure silver is 'face centered cubic'. Could the >> addition of one or two atoms of oxygen while the crystal is forming ..not >> as an compound so much as an alloy?] change that shape with a corresponding >> relationship to size and refractive properties? Could a free O1 atom [from >> the H2O2] tend to scavange the oxygen atom from such a hypothetical alloy >> forming the more stable O2? >> >> It has been my experience that the addition of a small amount of H2O2 to a >> yellow batch will clear the color from the batch [sometimes to a very >> faint metallic blue tinge if the CS was initially a faint or pale >> yellow..at over 25PPM] I added 8 drops of H2O2 to the 26+ PPM 750ml half >> batch placed near the kitchen window which went deep yellow overnight [the >> other half stored away from cold temperatures is still colorless and >> crystal clear in diffused light] and the color cleared up in about 5 days >> but it is incredibly murky like smoke in a bottle with a massive TE. >> Nothing has settled out. In fact, it looks more like an emulsion than a >> suspension with a "thickness" or viscosity like quality to it that's >> different than water. The PPM as measured with a Dist 1 dropped from 17 to 6. >> >> I have found that fresh heavily ozonated water will sometimes tend to make >> an initially yellow CS [that is, yellow now, not turning yellow >> later..though it may or may not turn 'more' yellow later on] whereas the >> same water after having been 'vented' for several days does not [left >> loosely capped while bubbles form on the sides of the DW jug] ...all other >> factors being as identical as possible. >> >> Using a high current to electrode surface area ratio makes yellow CS. >> Could it be that oxygen production from the electrode is faster than the >> oxidation rate of that electrode and excess oxygen is 'alloying' with the >> silver crystals as they form from ions? >> Stirring increases the amount of current that can be used and still not >> make yellow CS. Does stirring not only hydrate and isolate ion clusters >> from each other, but also, in effect, increase electrode surface area by >> disrupting a reactive boundary layer? ..and what is there for the silver to >> react with, but oxygen? >> >> I also find it interesting that crystal clear [colorless but strong] CS >> appears blackish when placed in a milk jug type DW water container while >> DW in the same type jug right next to it has no tint to it at all. [as >> viewed through the container] >> >> ..and..CS that dries on a white surface will stain that surface brown. >> Ken >> >> At 10:55 AM 6/18/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >I have wondered that as well. My suspicion is the particle shape. I suspect >> >that the mezo may have dense spherical particle, and the cs that is formed by >> >normal electrolysis methods may be more snow flake shaped. The resonances >> of a >> >particle will be consistant with the bulk of the metal, which would be much >> >larger on a spherical particle than on a snowflake, although the >> dimensions of >> >the snowflake could be much larger, whereas the snowflake is made up of many >> >small particles aggregated together, it's resonance would be more >> consistant with >> >the smaller particles that make the snowflake up.. >> > >> >Marshall >> > >> >Ode Coyote wrote: >> > >> >> I don't believe this to be entirely true. >> >> One can make a completely colorless batch of CS using LVDC that has a very >> >> bright tyndal effect seen with a laser pointer and read 10 - 16 PPM with a >> >> meter. >> >> Ions are too small to be lit up by laser light. >> >> Meters don't detect particles. >> >> Lab testing will reveal 25 to 50 PPM total silver content. >> >> I've seen slow run and stirred batches go as high as a 50% ion to >> >> particlulate ratio and still have no color. >> >> I don't know what makes Mesosilver so special so I won't dispute that, >> >> but, in LVDC home brew land, color is an indication of particle size. My >> >> brown tea went down the drain and this boy went back to the drawing board. >> >> Unless some care is taken, the particles will not all be the same size. >> >> Pale yellows and high PPM will indicate the presence of a few larger >> >> particles along with many smaller colorless particles. >> >> >> >> It's been my experience that no two labs return the same results when it >> >> comes to CS. I've seen error ranges up to +/- 50% >> >> Apparently CS doesn't work like anything else when tested by instruments >> >> designed to test other substances. >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> At 02:57 PM 6/17/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >If it is clear, it is ionic silver, not colloidal silver. Mesosilver is >> the >> >> >only brown colored silver colloid with nanometer sized particles. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >frank key >> >> > >> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >> >From: [email protected] >> >> >To: [email protected] >> >> >Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:35 PM >> >> >Subject: CS>colloidal color >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Hello, >> >> >I just switched my subscription to this new e-mail so I will have all >> of my >> >> >silver info in one place. >> >> >Does anyone have opinions on color? Some companies say only the brown >> >> >silver is good,and others say only the totally clear is good and to NEVER >> >> >take the brown. >> >> > >> >> >Also, ionic vs. colloidal....I've been reading that ionic cannot be used >> >> >internally because our digestive system destroys it before it can do any >> >> >good, and that we need to take the colloidal instead. Some companies list >> >> >the breakdown of the silver and what percentage of it is colloidal and >> >> >ionic. >> >> >Any thought on this? >> >> > >> >> >Also, someone on this list mentioned knowing about doctors using it and >> even >> >> >injecting it. Where can I find these doctors? >> >> > >> >> >Summer >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >-- >> >> >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. >> >> > >> >> >Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org >> >> > >> >> >To post, address your message to: [email protected] >> >> > >> >> >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >> >> > >> >> >List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > >
