url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61588.html
Re: CS>Wal-mart DW
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:59:53
> At 07:30 AM 7/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>> The RADICAL difference in conductance makes you want to buy your
>> own distillation unit.
>>Best regards,
>> :) Marv
> Yup, then all the variations are your fault. ;-)
> Ode
Ken, what do you do when you run into these problems?
They can be difficult to diagnose where one contaminant decreased
and another increased. The overall conductance may be quite similar,
but the dw behaves very different. A full lab report might help
track the problem, but that is far too expensive to do on each
batch.
The manufacturer may be very willing to help, but the
instrumentation they use to monitor quality cannot tell them what is
in the dw, so they have no way to detect changes and correct them.
I contacted the manufacturer of the WallMart dw I had been using and
promised to post any information that might be useful. Although Paul
was very quick to reply, and extremely helpful, it is clear they
cannot see small changes that can have a great effect on the cs
process.
Here are copies of two emails on the problem. Note in the second
email he uses a TDS meter and not a PWT. People have remarked the
TDS has a range of 0 to 2000 and is not as accurate at the bottom of
the scale as a PWT. But that's not the real problem. Something
happened that drastically changed the performance of the dw, but has
little effect on the conductance.
About the only things I can think of to help guard against these
problems are to record the date code of each bottle, and measure the
cell voltage and current during the brew.
Then keep your finges crossed each time you buy new dw:)
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
Here is the first email:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Cooper wrote:
> Hello Michael - No we have not changed process of steam
> distillation. Test are done throughout each run to meet set
> standards. If you can give me the code # found on the shoulder of
> the bottle about three inches or so below the cap, I'll be able to
> check our records & retained samples for consistency & let you
> know what I find.
> Sincerely,
> Paul Cooper - Quality Assurance Manager
Hi Paul,
Thank you very much for the quick reply. Yes, I record the date code
on every bottle. The one I am having trouble with is
APR25030153
I use a constant current source and record the voltage and current
during the electrolysis process for each batch. Normally, the
initial voltage across the cell rises briefly, then falls as the
process continues. This bottle shows a very different response. The
voltage doesn't rise at all - it simply starts dropping as soon as
current is applied.
Also, I get a hard, black shiny coat on the anode - this sometimes
happened with the previous water but the coat was more like a film
that was easily wiped off with a tissue. The hard coat from this
sample cannot be removed by wiping. The only way I can get it off is
to swap the anode and cathode electrodes. When the electrode is the
cathode, the hard coat turns into a soft gray sludge that is easy to
wipe off. But now the other electrode gets the hard coat.
This is very unusual. Normally, the electrodes both run clean and
seldom have any deposits at all.
So there seems to be some chemical in this latest sample that
affects the electrolysis a different way.
Is it possible the source of water has changed? For example, does
Mississauga add more chlorine or other chemicals in the summertime?
Thanks very much for your help!
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the second email:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Cooper wrote:
> Mike - My records & retention sample show nothing out of the
> ordinary, TDS is 1.5 & pH is 5.60; both good distilled water
> readings.
> Our last complete analysis was done in 2001 & the following are
> results other than ND (non detected)(PPM or mg/L):
> Nickel - 0.043
> Copper - 0.380
> pH - 5.01
> Specific Conductance - 4.09
> Total Trihalomethanes - 0.00062
> Chloroform - 0.00062
> Is this the only bottle you have found this way? Do you think it
> could have been tampered with?
> If you have some of this water left keep it for possible
> comparison test. Keep me posted on how other bottles do.
> Paul
Hi Paul,
I don't think it could have been tampered with. I check for the snap
as the anti-tamper ring breaks when you first twist the cap off. If
it wasn't there, I would have returned the bottle.
I just got two more bottles from WallMart. Both have the same date
code
JUL10030824
I ran a batch. Here are the initial readings after voltage is
applied to the cell:
Tue Jul 29, 2003, 12:45:02 am 11.36V 319uA
Tue Jul 29, 2003, 12:45:54 am 10.68V 321uA <- No slight rise. Boo
The previous bottles that were date coded before April showed a
slight rise at the beginning, then the voltage dropped normally. The
electrodes ran clean, or with perhaps a trace deposit on occasion.
It was easy to remove by wiping. This product performed admirably,
and I had no reason to look at any other distilled water.
All the bottles I have purchased since then produce a hard, shiny
black coat on the anode that is impossible to remove by wiping. It
turns into a gray sludge if I swap the electrodes, but now the new
anode has the hard coat.
I know a trace of salt in the distilled water will do this, but I
don't see how it could get past your distillation process. And there
might be a zillion other trace substances that could do the same
thing.
I am testing other brands of distilled water. So far they all have
problems of their own. Meanwhile, my process is basically shut down
until I can find a solution.
Thanks very much for your help. I'll keep looking and let you know
if I find anything worth mentioning.
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
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