At 06:19 PM 4/17/2006 -0400, you wrote:
I actually built my generator based on the very same design Ode is
referring to. I am temporarily using a TDS since that's what I had
available, I did order the Hanna PWT for future use. One question here,
can those units be used while silver generator is "plugged in" to take
readings without damaging them?
## probably won't hurt the meter but it may also not read right. Why
gamble?
so my measurments should be based on the electrical current readings
rather than TDS/PWT ??
** No. A "good" meter is far more accurate.
As far as the current meters you're mentioning... I'm guessing they need
to get a reading of amperage and voltage... correct?
## Get two of them [cost as little as $3 ea], one in series with a
potentiometer and one electrode for current...one in parallel with the
electrodes for voltage. Then play and observe what gives you the best
results. [You'll get the hang of it in a month or two?]
hmmm... not being an expert in this field, I have some idea of what this
setup should look like. Is there a a illustrative reference available
somewhere I could take a look at? or something that describes how to build
this piece in detail...?
** Put simply:
"Series" means you break one of the two wires and add stuff in so
electricity enters one side and goes out the other. [do this to monitor and
modify current]
"Parallel" means you add a wire to each of the two existing wires without
breaking them. [Do this to monitor voltage]
Since current and voltage monitering requires different hookups, two
meters are needed to do both at once, or some sort of complicated switching
to shift from one function to the other.
Digital read out display multi-meters are easier to read than analog
meters with sweeping needles and multiple scales..and they can be bought
for as little as $3 each. [How they can do that when the battery that runs
it costs a dollar, I'll never know. The Chinese must be paying their
employers to get work]
ode
________________________________________
From: Ode Coyote <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CS>making CS - should this be happening?
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:23:37 -0400
At 10:12 PM 4/16/2006 -0400, you wrote:
thanks for your responses, Sam and Ode...
I actually built my generator based on the very same design Ode is
referring to. I am temporarily using a TDS since that's what I had
available, I did order the Hanna PWT for future use. One question here,
can those units be used while silver generator is "plugged in" to take
readings without damaging them?
## probably won't hurt the meter but it may also not read right. Why
gamble?
I will follow your tips to improve my process. My power supply is a 30V
/ 500mA AC adapter by the way.
Also, what kind of reading should I be getting on PWT in distilled water
to know that it's good enough? I read that TDS should be below 2, less
the better obviously.
## The best I've seen is .2 uS. The worst I'll use is 5 uS. Average is
around .5 to .8 uS
.5 is about half of zero on a TDS meter and 1 PPM could be as high as
10 uS in that range of a 2000 PPM scale.
As far as the current meters you're mentioning... I'm guessing they need
to get a reading of amperage and voltage... correct?
## Get two of them [cost as little as $3 ea], one in series with a
potentiometer and one electrode for current...one in parallel with the
electrodes for voltage. Then play and observe what gives you the best
results. [You'll get the hang of it in a month or two?]
In the meantime, before I build up my generator, can I just let it run
and take occasional readings with TDS/PWT to get an idea when it's time
to stop??
## Yup [double the TDS reading for an approximation of uS and use
something like 1 uS = 1 PPM the day after the brew has finished to get
some idea about predicting conductivity drop as specific to 'your'
process and batch size]
IOW 5PPM gets you 10...tomorrow, but might say 18 today.
Make charts of voltage, current and PPM/uS in 10 minute increments so
you can repeat a "good" batch.
...or...let the faces you make in the mirror be your dose guide, use
whatever happens that doesn't look like sludge with a hint of caution and
be happy. ;-)
Ode
thanks for all your help again
From: Ode Coyote <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CS>making CS - should this be happening?
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:09:30 -0400
Sure
Clocks can't work to predict anything unless:
1] you know where you started [a very small difference in water quality
makes a huge difference in the amount of time it takes to get to a
desired place.]
2] you have some idea of the current ramp up rate [aka runaway]..it's
by no means linear like a clock.
How far out depends on the generator type you're using.
If it's a constant voltage unit: The first hour you might get 1 to 10
PPM, the next, from 10 to 50 PPM..all depending where on the electrical
current acceleration curve you started, as set by the initial water
quality where a mere 1/2 microsiemens difference in starting
conductivity between batches makes all that difference in PPM and the
time it takes to get there.
A TDS meter isn't good enough to read those differences at all...not
even close.
Get a Hanna PWT or COM-100 conductivity meter...and/or a generator
that has process control functions.
I found reference to 2 "CS3" generators.
http://www.lwpub.com/downloads/CS_archives/CS3_plans.html
#1] A "CS3" doesn't control anything which means that you have to
control IT.
That takes instruments, knowledge and a watchful eye.
An ammeter and a potentiometer is a good [cheap] start.
Some people get pretty good at seat of the pants/ hawk eyeball
operation on generators like that.
BTW...don't forget to watch the C3. If you do forget, it can catch
fire. [ A fuse on the output that's lower than the transformers max
current rating wouldn't be a bad idea]
#2] A "CS3-12" from
<http://www.antivirol.com/colloidal_generator.html>BIOPHYSICA does
control current...but time is still a huge variable. [At least it
stops ramping up and goes linear once the controlled current is
reached. After 'that' point, you can use a clock but getting TO that
point can vary by several hours]
Monitor voltage to tell where you are. When voltage starts going
down, you're at the point where a clock sorta works.
Up to somewhere around 20-30 uS [microsiemens of conductivity],
voltage can tell you something about PPM...like using a conductivity meter.
uS and PPM, though not the same thing, bear a [somewhat tenuous]
relationship.
Ode
At 10:20 PM 4/15/2006 -0400, you wrote:
all right, I'm kind of confused here... I just lef it running for
about 60 minutes, I take a reading using TDS meter.. and it reads 1 ppm...
thoughts?
From: "Sam Mureno" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CS>making CS - should this be happening?
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:05:15 -0700
Yes, this is normal.
Sam
On 4/15/06, . . <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> One of the silver wires in my CS3 generator turns very dark after
15-20
> minutes of operation, should this be taking place?
>
>
>
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