> However, if you are the refresher 
> (which is what your question refers to)
> then it is not so clear (and maybe just 
> plain wrong).  Surely if one has sent 
> the INVITE and its retransmissions and 
> no response was received, then it must 
> be that the other end has experienced a 
> serious error. 

Not true.  A proxy or something in the
signaling path might be down or undergoing 
a restart.

> And once the retransmission limit is 
> reached then the call should be 
> terminated.  I can't see any point in 
> waiting any longer.

The proxy might recover so the session
could be refreshed.

One could honor the expiration value
instead of tearing down the session at
half the expiration value.

However rfc3261 section 12.2.1
mentions that the 408 SHOULD trigger
a termination of the dialog.  To avoid
debating the 408 issue again and to avoid
a SHOULD conflict, maybe the timer draft to 
reflect the rfc3261 SHOULD text.

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