I've seen two messages like this on the list today, the other being basically the question, why are things worse instead of better if Skype is really working with us.
I'll answer the basic question in both of these messages with an analogy of sorts... In writing scripts, I'm building a house, where Skype is the ground under it. The ground itself is reshaped from time to time by forces much stronger than the weight of my house. In this case, the forces are millions of other people also building houses. Right off then, we must realize that we don't really control the ground. We adapt to it, and sometimes we push back a bit when its movement causes us a problem. Even if we get some help, we are not big enough to stop the fact that little earthquakes, and sometimes even big ones, are going to happen. Now, coming out of the analogy... Skype is shaped by many people, and we are not that many. The interface changes this time around did cause us some problems, but this does not mean Skype doesn't care about us. It means Skype cares about a lot of things and a lot of people. I don't know what I'm authorized to say about what Skype does internally to support us, but I can say that after working in the assistive technology field for over ten years, I can still say I've seen them do more than most companies that have no legal obligation to do anything. Now for the hard part, and this is why I used the above analogy in the first place: When you build a house, you usually notice things about your lot of land that are on the surface and a bit below it. Unless you're privy to good documentation, you are likely to make some basic assumptions about your area, such as that it's solid underneath what you can see. If five years later you discover you built your house over an abandoned coal mine, and that your house and the surrounding neighborhood as a whole are starting to sink, you will realize that one of your assumptions was wrong. And so it was with me and Skype 4.2, in at least one area: I assumed, starting in at least Skype 4.0, that the contact list, conversation list, and history list would each have its own window handle, for as long as those lists might exist at all. I was wrong. In Skype 4.2, there is a single window, and its contents are replaced as you switch among lists so it contains the list you want. There is no direct way for a script to identify each list, and there is no way to see the contents of a list that is no longer shown on screen because it literally goes away. For Skype, this is more efficient and makes sense. It just so happens that the change breaks some things we're used to that depended on the separate window handles, such as Ctrl+Shift+O. But to be "accessible," Skype is not required to let us see things that are not on screen anymore; so even if something like Section 508 applied to Skype and forced them to make Skype accessible, this change would not get them in trouble. We relied on something underground, namely a structure of window handles, and we found out suddenly that things 20 feet underground can change. That, as they say, is life. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 05:03:37PM -0500, Brian Zolo wrote: Hey there, Doug, Brian Zolo here from Gahanna, Ohio. I have the utmost respect for you and what you've accomplished with the scripts for Skype and I want to say a heart felt thank you for all your hard work. I'm troubled with respect to where we really stand with skype accessibility. Why would it not be possible for skype to have blind computer users beta test new releases so that we can give them feedback as to accessibility problems thereby enhancing our working relationship with skype. You do an awesome job, Doug, but you're only one person, I'm in no way trying to diminish your efforts, but I'd like to see these issues solved in a proactive manner between you, the skype development team and we as the user community who have a big stake in skype succeeding with respect to accessibility of the product. I've always said when I address accessibility issues that I want to be part of the solution and not just part of the problem, I welcome further discussion of this matter, thanks again, Doug and I certainly welcome your thoughts and suggestions, let's be a helping hand in our efforts if you'll allow that, grin1 you have a great day! BZ! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doug Lee Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:13 PM To: screen access software with skype Subject: Re: [Skypeenglish] Skype 4.2 beta status Issues in Skype 4.2 Release of which I am aware: 1. Arrows are slow in large contact and history lists, with or without scripts. Skype will have to fix this. 2. There is no way from the keyboard to move between live calls and the contact or conversation list. Skype should fix this but I can as well. 3. Alt+numbers and Alt+arrows no longer work to read chat messages. I'll have to fix this. 4. SkypeWatch is unable to report sign ins, sign outs, and possibly other types of alerts. Skype will have to fix this. 5. Ctrl+Shift+O no longer works. Same for Command key o and any letter, for getting subparts of that list. I expect this to be a permanent change, not to be fixed. The best I might be able to do is make Ctrl+Shift+O etc. work when the contact list is on screen. 6. Insert+F8 includes conversation or contact-list items among the valid entries. I should be able to fix this. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:17:16PM -0500, Doug Lee wrote: I know about the Alt+number issue. I should be able to fix that one, I just haven't gotten to it yet. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 04:54:05PM -0000, Aiden Gardiner wrote: Hi Doug, Another issue is that when in a conversation, the scripts do not think your in a conversation window when you press alt 1 through 0, but my previous issue with the scripts thinking that skype was not aware that a screen reader was running seems to have been corrected in this version, so I don't need to rely so much on clisk for text chatting. Aiden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <[email protected]> To: "screen access software with skype" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [Skypeenglish] Skype 4.2 beta status >I just received word that Skype 4.2 has just come out of beta. I can >therefore say this now, and hopefully more later. > >There have been a number of differences among Skype 4.2 beta versions >that affected JAWS and the Skype scripts. As has sometimes happened >before, I did not manage to figure out which version would be released >ahead of time, though this time it was mostly because I didn't get to >it in time. > >The 4.2 release does not currently work very well with the scripts. >The biggest reason is that Skype 4.2 consolidates the contact list, >conversation list, and history into one window internally. This does >not change what things look like much, but it does prevent the scripts >from having a way to identify which "window" is active as they did >before. This change also means that, when you're in the conversation >list or history, the scripts will have no way to find out what >contacts are online in your contact list, because the contact list is >no longer available when it is not visible. The effect is that >Ctrl+Shift+O and the various commands for listing online, away, etc., >contacts will no longer work in Skype 4.2. I must stress that this is >not an accessibility problem, because we were accessing things that >weren't accessible to sighted people. :) It is admittedly an >inconvenience, but an inevitable one. > >So for now, I recommend that JAWS users stick with Skype 4.1. I will >address the scripting issues in 4.2 as soon as I can. > > >-- >Doug Lee [email protected] http://www.dlee.org >SSB BART Group [email protected] >http://www.ssbbartgroup.com >"It's not easy to be crafty and winsome at the same time, and few >accomplish >it after the age of six." --John W. Gardner and Francesca Gardner Reese > >Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for >the latest version of skype go to >http://www.dlee.org/skype >To access tutorials and other goodies go to >http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html > > >To contact the list owner send a message to >mailto:[email protected] > >to download a tool to automate the installation of skypewatch go to >this link. >http://www.hrvojekatic.tk/ > >and for a searchable archives page go here. >http://bit.ly/64Y48 > >thanks and have a wonderful day. > > >_______________________________________________ >Skypeenglish mailing list >[email protected] >http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the latest version of skype go to http://www.dlee.org/skype To access tutorials and other goodies go to http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html To contact the list owner send a message to mailto:[email protected] to download a tool to automate the installation of skypewatch go to this link. http://www.hrvojekatic.tk/ and for a searchable archives page go here. http://bit.ly/64Y48 thanks and have a wonderful day. _______________________________________________ Skypeenglish mailing list [email protected] http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com -- Doug Lee [email protected] http://www.dlee.org SSB BART Group [email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "Sometimes I think my learning curve is a circle." -- David Andrews -- Doug Lee [email protected] http://www.dlee.org SSB BART Group [email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com Time is the friend of one who is true, and the enemy of one who isn't. (02/05/2010) Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the latest version of skype go to http://www.dlee.org/skype To access tutorials and other goodies go to http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html To contact the list owner send a message to mailto:[email protected] to download a tool to automate the installation of skypewatch go to this link. http://www.hrvojekatic.tk/ and for a searchable archives page go here. http://bit.ly/64Y48 thanks and have a wonderful day. _______________________________________________ Skypeenglish mailing list [email protected] http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4896 (20100225) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4896 (20100225) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the latest version of skype go to http://www.dlee.org/skype To access tutorials and other goodies go to http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html To contact the list owner send a message to mailto:[email protected] to download a tool to automate the installation of skypewatch go to this link. http://www.hrvojekatic.tk/ and for a searchable archives page go here. http://bit.ly/64Y48 thanks and have a wonderful day. _______________________________________________ Skypeenglish mailing list [email protected] http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com -- Doug Lee [email protected] http://www.dlee.org SSB BART Group [email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "There are no guarantees. From a standpoint of fear, none are strong enough. From a standpoint of love, none are necessary." - from Emmanuel's Book II Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the latest version of skype go to http://www.dlee.org/skype To access tutorials and other goodies go to http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html To contact the list owner send a message to mailto:[email protected] to download a tool to automate the installation of skypewatch go to this link. http://www.hrvojekatic.tk/ and for a searchable archives page go here. http://bit.ly/64Y48 thanks and have a wonderful day. _______________________________________________ Skypeenglish mailing list [email protected] http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com
