Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters / Builders etc.

[Tom Broeski]

There are plenty of people who fly both woodies and composites (built and 
bought).  Without guys like Ray and Phil, there would be a very big void in 
world of RC.  There are also some who build, some who design and some who do 
both.  Selig, DP, JW, TK, MD etc.  Are greatly responsible for what is being 
developed.  TK scratch built his first designs and the Mantis took off 
because of Phil and got "pretty" because of  Terry Luckenbacker.  I believe 
Doc D, TK, Mike L, Phil, Barry, etc. all participate in the evolution of the 
Supra.  We need all types to make this the great sport it is.  No one person 
is doing this on their own.
Oh, and we need the non-builder guys to buy the stuff that people build 
also.

This is for example sake.  There are many more I could add to the list, the 
etc. is for them.  And sorry if any of my facts are off or limited.

John,
I believe AMA does provide Delta Darts and there are a lot of clubs, 
schools, scouts, etc. that take advantage of this service.  I've taught a 
flight class (small free flight gliders) at the local middle school for 
several years.  Kids have won both regional and state championships. Haven't 
had a single kid join the sport.  Video games seem to be taking over.  Why 
go outside when you can fly on a computer.  Competitions tend to drive the 
high end, but there are a lot of "low end" fliers that are happy to just go 
out and have fun on the weekends, you don't hear much about them.  My 
question is:  "How did you get into the sport in the first place?"  I 
watched the power fliers at Sepulveda Park (LA Calif) in the 50's and didn't 
get into the sport until the mid 90's in Virginia.  Saw my first sailplane 
contest at Cuckoo VA.  There were lots of "exploded" woody planes on launch, 
several lost in the woods, mid-airs, hard landings, etc.  I figured it took 
a good deal of money to compete in the sport.  I saw hand launches for the 
first time.  I went to the closest local club in Waynesboro, VA and they 
told me they didn't allow sailplanes.  I just didn't want the mess and noise 
of power.  I tried to learn to fly on my own with no luck.  I found a club 
in Charlottesville VA and a guy (Millard Scott) who helped me learn to fly. 
I know I would have given up if he hadn't been there.  I don't know if there 
is anything that AMA or LSF can do.  I'm sure they are open to suggestions.
T



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RCSE" <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement


After the exchange between Ray and Phil I have been thinking.

Inquiring minds would like to know!

How many builder/flyers do we have at the NATS? Aside from my own 
curiosity,
I think it would be a good gauge for AMA and LSF of the state of the 
hobby.
It would be nice to know just how many people at the NATS build the planes
that they fly. I have the greatest respect for the people like Phil that
build and fly the molded planes. It takes a real commitment to the hobby 
and
building to acquire the skills and equipment needed to make composite and
molded plane. I am thinking that of all flyers at the NATS maybe 10-20%
would have built the planes they fly. This is just from observation from
being a spectator, timer, and relief driver of the carts at last years 
NATS.
I think we will see even less flyer/builder/pilots this year with the
popularity of the Mark D. based design ARFs like the AVA.

That said, maybe we should think about where new blood will come from, and
who is are target new members. Certainly they will not come from the young
people that have families to rise. The silent EXAMPLES we are giving at 
our
contests say that the average cost of a competitive ship is as much or 
more
than the young families house payment. Yes, you can get in cheaper but
people learn from what they see (the high percentage of very expensive
planes) and the not what they are told (It is not the equipment it's the
skill of the pilot that counts). It may be time to re-thing, and redirect,
where the AMA and LSF is directing the marketing for new soaring members.

Flame proof pants on!

John
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:16 AM
To: Phil Barnes; soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement

Phil, I have tremendous respect for your contributions to rc soaring as
well, but maybe you should not be to too thin skinned on what is posted
here.  Note that I included a smiley face, meaning this was a tongue in
cheek thing and not meant to cause hurt feelings.

When I think of ARF, I don't think of Phil Barnes or composit scratch
builders, I think of Asia and Europe and see through wings.  I bet I'm not
alone on this.

BTW, I was flying " Old Fashioned " composit ( pressed balsa sheeting 
glued
with epoxy over foam cores I cut ) in the 1980 (?) F3B Team Selection
Finals, I believe Dave Thornburg was the CD.  So a little definition of 
old
fashioned may be needed.

Old fashion ways, hmmmmmmmmmm, do I sense a little disrespect, probably 
not,
if there is, I'm too thick skinned to pick up on it.

The most satisfaction I get from Wood Crafters is when new guys to rc
sailplanes, flying there first contest,  get turned on to contest flying.
When they say to me, " I wasn't sure I would enjoy flying a contest, but I
do ",  it is very satisfying to me.  Several of these newbies have showed 
up
at the Nats with their woodys and flew RES and Nostalgia and joined local
soaring clubs.  I wish clubs from coast to coast would do more to promote
Newbies.

Ray Hayes
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>Nostalgia at the Nats is canceled this
> year and the rumor is the LSF NATS are going to be renamed
>
>        AMA/LSF ARF NATS.  :-)

You know Ray, I have tremendous respect for what you have done to promote
woody events and I am happy whenever I see that your events are 
successful
and growing. The only thing that tweaks me is the way that some woody
fliers
show so little respect for composite scratch builders and repeatedly post
things that imply that you can't be a scratch builder unless you build 
the
old fashioned way.

How about showing the many composite scratch builders a little respect
now?

Phil


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"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe 
messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.  Email sent from web based email 
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