Very well put.. like trying to reason with a robot locked on it's crush/dominate mode program preset by whatever means (to an end) necessary. (necessarily mean)

On 03/05/14 17:51, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:
Ethical simply doesn't enter the picture when you interface with a publicly traded corp. Whether it's sad or not is a different discussion, but never expect ethical from any profit driven organization. This is not a criticism levelled to any company, it's just an important thing to keep in mind when dealing with one that, ultimately, targets investor benefits as their main objective. ZBrush or 3DCoat are ultimately driven by the vision and feelings of some key people, Fabric to a large extent can be personable, SideFX often is, Some products inside the Foundry are successful and insular enough to benefit from the good will of some key people. Autodesk simply doesn't work to those parameters, it's not configured to the moment any given decision can be overridden by a fluctuation in the stock market that's completely unrelated to the division serving you.

The (some) people inside have feelings and ethics, and some rare times they might surface in a company policy, software feature or PR move, but the general direction of the company itself isn't determined by those anomalies.

You can expect some moral standards and genuinely humane feelings reflected in those products with teams insular and successful enough in some of those companies, and you definitely can in the more mom&pop style companies, but don't expect a publicly traded company to be successfully affected, provoked, manipulated or coerced into action or inaction by any interaction shaped by feelings like if you were dealing with another person.



On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Jason S <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    << There is so much more that is wrong and could be fixed >>

    Of course what can "legal" often bears very little, to sometimes
    NO relation to what can be considered "ethical"



    On 03/05/14 17:09, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:
    People often take the whole antitrust thing a bit too far.
    Antitrust laws, contrary to popular belief, don't prohibit
    de-facto monopolies in any way other than those emerging
    maliciously or aggressively. They are intended to try and avoid
    them, of course, but there is nothing illegal to a monopoly
    emerging naturally as long as it doesn't get exploited, once in
    place, to further itself in an unfair and uncompetitive manner.
    If you have a monopoly on something because you're the only
    provider of such thing that's perfectly legal. It's oligopoly
    through conspiracy (cross company agreements on price fixing in
    example) that's severely punished, and monopoly through
    conspiracy or aggressive exploitation of an existing monopolistic
    or quasi-monopolistic capacity that are prohibited.

    AD is also not considered a monopoly since Houdini, Modo, C4D,
    LW, and various other hanger-ons are all available, and AD
    generally doesn't coerce or litigate much through M&E, almost not
    at all compared to any other tech industry.

    Lastly, to those saying the acquisition of Softimage should have
    been stalled or blocked by antitrust, Soft had been gutted by
    Avid and put on a fire sale and handled very dubiously by a
    couple entirely too career focused people inside it. AD did
    absolutely nothing illegal or dodgy buying it. They would have
    had had they performed an aggressive take over of sorts and
    concurrently done something like slashing prices or offering
    trade-ins at a loss against other platforms, effectively making a
    move to try and sweep the market of competitors, but they did
    none of it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of current or past events, but
    the whole monopoly and antitrust discussions are honestly best
    left out of it. There is so much more that is wrong and could be
    fixed before people contemplate class actions and antitrust
    appeals that are so incredibly unlikely to go anywhere other than
    to brush the pocket lining of a handful of lawyers.



    On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Paul Griswold
    <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        Well, as I posted over on CGTalk, I don't think killing
        Softimage was a real business decision.  If M&E account for
        only 7% of ADSK's revenue, and Softimage is one of the
        smallest components of that revenue, it's insignificant.
         But, executives need to pound their chests like gorillas and
        proclaim to the shareholders & board that they're trimming
        the fat, etc., etc.  If it was truly a business decision,
        they could have cut a lot more than just Softimage to make an
        impact on the bottom line.  This was all for show IMHO.

        Realistically, they could cancel all of their M&E products if
        they're 7% of the revenue.  They own enough patents &
        intellectual property that they could essentially hold the
        industry hostage and never develop another product.  Again
        Joe Alter comes to mind.  Why develop anything when you can
        sit back and force people to pay licensing fees year after year?

        Hopefully enough noise is made to start stirring up some
        anti-trust claims.  Autodesk is clearly behaving as a
        monopoly at this point.

        -Paul




        ᐧ


        On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Emilio Hernandez
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            Well we all still think that putting Softimage to rest is
            a big mistake.

            Motion Builder also has not major improvements.  So we
            know how all will end.

            "We will continue to support and develop..."



            -------------------------------------------------------
            Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


            2014-03-05 15:02 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares
            <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:

                If they kill any of those the only one I think would
                be a mistake would be Motion Builder… it has great
                potential if they decide to actually develop it… it
                has been in limbo mode like Softimage for years now
                and killing the Mac version was truly annoying.

                3DSMax… well… the architecture is so old and messy
                (have you tried developing for Max?) I wonder how are
                they going to sustain it…

                With regards with the users… they may offer the same
                great deal we are receiving..  (irony)

                arhghh

                Jordi Bares
                [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

                On 5 Mar 2014, at 19:45, Emilio Hernandez
                <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                More reasons to stay with softimage

                El mar 5, 2014 1:42 PM, "Gustavo Eggert Boehs"
                <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
                escribió:

                    Yes, but what they might do (are doing imho) is
                    just keeping updates as irrelevant as possible
                    for animation, not to encourage new users to
                    pick it up with that in mind.

                    Em quarta-feira, 5 de março de 2014, Steven
                    Caron <[email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu:

                        i agree with the first two, just 3dsmax has
                        too much installed user base. i know we are
                        mad and we are making a stink about it...
                        but if they axed max?! autodesk might have
                        to consider extra security...


                        On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Jordi Bares
                        <[email protected]> wrote:

                            The writing is on the wall. This is my take.

                            1 - Mudbox is next as Zbrush has truly
                            wiped the market.

                            2 - Morion Builder next as they
                            implement some tech in maya.

                            3 - 3DMax goes next.

                            Anyone want to bet?



-- Gustavo E Boehs
                    Dpto. de Expressão Gráfica | Universidade
                    Federal de Santa Catarina |
                    http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/







-- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it!
    Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!




--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

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