Re: OT Maya: push deformer

[Jason S]

Title: HTML clipboard

Yes! the ICE (sorry.. Naiad) vs Bifrost vid! .. Inspiration for Bifrost really came from Naiad and obviously to the acquisition, but also very much from ICE looking at the strengths and weaknesses of both systems... Comparing strengths and weaknesses of ICE & Naiad? How about comparing strengths and weaknesses of ICE and Nuke? Ice has -nothing- to do with Naiad.. they are completely differrent things, which I firmly believe is the -entire point-. The whole presentation was to show how Bifrost would eventually cover other areas. while at the end, when asked how much of ICE would be in Bifrost after hearing all about what Naiad/Bifrost will cover.. (which was probably basically what was on everyone's mind.. (2 out of 3 questions) (fluids are cool (if not somewhat of an accessory) ... but you know.. what about ICE?  (and everything it covers) which was cancelled at the very same moment as the first version of Bifrost surfaced) and the answer was.. ... uhm, I know one thing that people talk about is the fact that ICE wasn't.. wasn't really effects, it was .. you know.. Rigging and Animation and  ... modeling and everything.. (yes -everything!-)  .. and we're very aware of that of that and uh.. what were trying to do is .. is not.. i mean.. if we go back and look at the -history- of ice, ... you see that the first thing they did was particles? ...   We are aware of that but... what were trying to do is .. is not.. i mean..  (is not ICE? maybe?) Luceric said that, what Marcus meant by Bifrost being 'easier', was the inclusion of greater amount of higher level nodes. But by the rest of the video, it really looks like he meant that a number of procedures would be somewhat 'predefined' (like eXpresso lets say) ... so I .. from where we stand I guess.. when we looked at ICE we saw that, you know ICE often kinda forced you into the visual programming world too quickly?.  Uhm. and some people were complainging that.. we love ice, but its its kinda hard to use.. Imagine traditional Naiad nodes (allowing to process values and data in a comparatively *very* contained way) but that could also do fire/smoke fluids,  and perhaps geometry sims. I hardly think you could actually 'write' a program from scratch using Naiad (or Bifrost) nodes, or basically drive anything/everything with Naiad nodes in Maya. But even lets say hypothetically, (despite being pretty unlikely) that eventually most or everything you could do in ICE, you could do in Bifrost, As Marcus mentionned, It did take 3 years to get ICE to deal with a whole bunch of things (almost anything/everything) in SI, but it was at least like another 3 before that point, to get it to 95% of what it became (when it came out).  (disproportionate time proportions being like most productions) Meaning that.. it's first incarnation, yes technically it only dealt with particles, but it had -nothing- to do with the first (or quite-probably the subsequent) incarnation(s) of Naiad/Bifrost, even if it also technically only dealt with particles. And I think it's more than enough to extrapolate that, unless things change, 'Bifrost' is, and will quite likely remain like an elaborate Naiad simulation engine. Which would cover fire smoke and perhaps geometry simulations, which you could in turn, guide, process and control using packagable procedural nodes. (which of course is something ICE -can- do, but is *definitely* not -limited- to that) .. and .. would 'be there' in ~6 years (when ICE is would be a bit more forgotten, (or perhaps -not-.. given the expectations) and when demand would then have become sky-high) All of which can be considered quite terrible as an outcome (more than now) (-at least- for that (HUGE) gaping gap, but probably also for the fact that it just probably won't be anywhere near ICE (at all)) BUT while demand might actually make it come closer, it's highly questionable it would eventually cover 60% of the **Loss**, half a decade (or more) later (while perhaps doing excellent simulations) Being indeed just terrible (ethics, manners, consideration & understanding.. being almost exclusively driven by [not passion]  ) On 08/19/14 11:10, Gerbrand Nel wrote: On 2014-08-19 04:45 PM, Jason S wrote: I know right...!! I watched the bifrost SIGGRAPH videos, and got exited until I realized that apart from doing amazing liquids, it still cant do what Soft could do 5 years ago. It doesn't help that I just lost a job because I had to tell the client that I can't do his job in maya yet. Mainly because I was spoiled with ICE, and therefore never learned to script things the fucking software should be able to do out of the box. I suspect by the end of this I'll know allot more about 3D, but like it allot less. Uggghhh. It seems I'm back to step 3.1 ANGER!!!!!!! G These are but typical backflips necessary allover across Maya, while the 'Humanization project' consisted of MMB Last command, 'H' hide/unhide toggle, and tweak tool tweaks. Decision makers either -act- as if they don't know what SI was or is, or.. they really don't know what SI was or is. As if they just 'looked' at it. But either way, that's what SI is was and is all about, ergonomics first .... But acknowledging what SI was or is, would imply acknowledging how not right it was to acquire it -for- the purpose of elimination. Had it been exclusively like an ICE engine ,it could have been much more easily considered to be complimentary.. But it just happened to be none other than the *only* competition to one of it's main product, being unique & whole in itself, and to a fair degree, with a purpose that none other can fulfill. Luceric said there would never have been a good time to kill Softimage.. and I must say that I couldn't have said so better myself. (it would basically have been just as wrong anytime) On 08/19/14 3:46, Ben Beckett wrote: On the subject of Soup I love these plugins as well and also for them hard to install. My shelf never worked as well. If any one out there has any idea's that would be great. Ben