Rigging toolbox looks super interesting and a great example of how to do some things. It's very helpful, thanks for doing this!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Sebastien Sterling < [email protected]> wrote: > > I think open source is at it's best when someone just puts something out > into the world and decides to takes a back seat. The FE guys are actively > developing the platform, it's theirs and they are best suited to develop it > further. > > Don't be calus Guy, i don't think paul has anything against open source, > he is just saying that successful examples of it in co-relation with the > complexity of the tools we use are few and far between. > > The FE guys will probably keep denying the consolidation of a DCC even as > they pave over the last panel of the Maya UI with KL :P > > > > On 12 December 2014 at 18:49, Paul Doyle <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I explained the reasoning, I'm not going to go into this topic any >> further. >> >> On 12 December 2014 at 13:47, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> But I have the feeling you think open-source automatically means 'free'. >>> >>> Your business is not selling software (I hope), your business is selling >>> licenses. >>> >>> Using a dual-licenses approach, it would be free to use for >>> non-commercial open-sourced projects, but studios would still have to pay >>> licenses for proprietary development. So no change here in terms of >>> business, this could even be transparent for your existing customers. >>> Nothing would change for them and you would get the same amount of money >>> from them. >>> >>> Yet, instead allowing them to distribute free Fabric tools if they >>> choose to, this could perhaps allow them to sell Fabric tools too. Better >>> business model for everyone. >>> >>> While being open-sourced and free for non commercial developments, trust >>> is back and open-sourced communities developments could start. >>> >>> ps: a contract means nothing if a company disappear, I believe I'm not >>> the only one who has experienced that. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Guy. >>> -- >>> >>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>> >>> >>> On 12/12/14 19:01, Paul Doyle wrote: >>> >>> The fact is there are no successful open-source companies in our >>> industry because the numbers don't work. The companies that do open-source >>> in our industry are doing something else as their main business. Our main >>> business is selling software. Typically a software company open-sources if >>> they see an opportunity to build a services business/premium support model >>> around their software - the conversion percentages here are typically <5% >>> of the user base and often much lower. Simply put - our industry is too >>> technical ("we don't need no stinking support") and too small (how many >>> studios are there globally above 10 employees?) for that to be viable, we >>> would die. >>> >>> As for trust - that was really my point in my last email. Fabric makes >>> guarantees through our licensing agreements with customers - they don't >>> have to trust what I tell them, they have a contract that gives them what >>> they need. >>> >>> I get that many people feel burned and why that makes a very >>> compelling argument for OSS alternatives. If we felt that we could be >>> successful doing that, then we'd be doing it. There is no moral opposition >>> to the notion of open-sourcing, it's a matter of doing such a thing if and >>> when it makes sense. Right now that's not our position. >>> >>> >>> On 12 December 2014 at 12:33, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah well, with all the lies Autodesk gave us, how come can you expect >>>> to be trusted ? >>>> >>>> Nothing personal though, you are not responsible. >>>> >>>> But the trust is lost, broken, irreversibly. They did a pretty good job >>>> at it. Blame them. >>>> >>>> The only projects and products that deserve trust are open sourced >>>> projects. Period. >>>> >>>> Yet I still don't understand why you are so afraid to open source the >>>> core using a dual license. Take Berkeley DB from Oracle for instance. Open >>>> sourced, dual licensed. I don't think Oracle stakes holders are less >>>> business oriented than Autodesk ones. Wiser perhaps ? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Guy. >>>> -- >>>> >>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/12/14 18:10, Paul Doyle wrote: >>>> >>>> Our customers all have agreements that protect them, and next year >>>> we'll be pushing on the 3rd party licensing model which will also allow >>>> people to distribute free Fabric tools if they choose to. If someone wanted >>>> to build a full-on DCC then we'd have a license agreement that would >>>> protect them as well. >>>> >>>> There are more approaches to this than just 'open source all the >>>> things!'. >>>> >>>> On 12 December 2014 at 11:27, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Create a whole dcc on top of a proprietary closed source product that >>>>> can disappear or be trashed at any time ? Are you kidding ? Will you ever >>>>> learn ? >>>>> >>>>> I guess loosing Softimage was not enough for you ? Or you simply don't >>>>> care ? >>>>> >>>>> I still do. For a long time. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Guy. >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/12/14 14:39, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Il don't see the need to expose the core either, you can already >>>>> create a whole dcc by yourself. You can extend the Splice standalone and >>>>> add as many feature as you want. You can add/derive/modify all the KL >>>>> objects. You can draw whatever you want in modern opengl and interact with >>>>> the objects in the viewport. Integrate. c++ libraries and finally >>>>> customize >>>>> the ui with QT. >>>>> What would you like to do by changing the core? >>>>> Le 12 déc. 2014 06:00, "Thomas Mansencal" <[email protected]> >>>>> a écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> Excellent! I'm not a rigger but my friends rigger are now aware :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri Dec 12 2014 at 10:31:36 AM Sebastien Sterling < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hot shit this stuff looks cool, just make a DCC already :P >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Na i get why that can't be a priority right now, still all this >>>>>>> awsome... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are hungry for more i'm sure :) so congrats to all and to you >>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12 December 2014 at 08:23, Nicolas Esposito <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Great job guys! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm very interested especially regarding the DeltaMush modifier, >>>>>>>> looks fantastic! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Very interesting is the Blendshapes rig...about that I'm thinking >>>>>>>> that the debugging of the blendshape could be used for realtime >>>>>>>> deformation >>>>>>>> ( displacement or wrinkle maps ) that triggers automatically ( ala >>>>>>>> Facerobot but much quicker ). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm still not familiar with Fabric Engine so pardon my questions >>>>>>>> but: >>>>>>>> - Regarding the captain atom rig, if I understood correctly you are >>>>>>>> able via Alembic to bake all the deformation you setup with the Rigging >>>>>>>> Toolbox and then via script apply those deformation on the source mesh >>>>>>>> itself, right? so, after I did all the deformations I want I can simply >>>>>>>> bake those deformations with a script and then export the rig itself >>>>>>>> in FBX >>>>>>>> and those deformations are baked in, right? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Same question, but related to tge blendshape rig...at 22.10 the >>>>>>>> locator is described as a container which holds the geometry, but >>>>>>>> there's >>>>>>>> no actual geometry in the scene...in this case how the export in FBX >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> work? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers guys, this looks awesome! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2014-12-12 3:46 GMT+01:00 Paul Doyle <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Guy - no, we're not planning to open-source the core. Thanks >>>>>>>>> for the analysis of our client base and users ;) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11 December 2014 at 21:28, Guy Rabiller < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Still no plan to make the Core open sourced (perhaps dual >>>>>>>>>> licensed ala Oracle) and available to open sourced projects ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I see you are now in need for more users/clients, perhaps this >>>>>>>>>> could be the right time ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Guy. >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/14 22:48, Paul Doyle wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (X-Post from 3DPro) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone - something that has come up a few times with >>>>>>>>>> customers has been 'can you give us some sample deformers written in >>>>>>>>>> KL for >>>>>>>>>> us to get started?'. The Rigging Toolbox is our pass at doing just >>>>>>>>>> that: a >>>>>>>>>> public repo where people can see how we've approached things like >>>>>>>>>> delta >>>>>>>>>> mush (is it too late to be considered part of the DM hype train?) and >>>>>>>>>> contribute back their own work if they want to. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> video here: https://vimeo.com/114272905 >>>>>>>>>> website + link to repo: http://fabricengine.com/rigging-toolbox/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The Rigging Toolbox provides a collection of production >>>>>>>>>> relevant tools that can be used when building character pipelines >>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>> Fabric Engine. These tools can be used as is, or purely as reference >>>>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>>>> build your own implementations. Recently we have added a suite of >>>>>>>>>> deformers >>>>>>>>>> and are now working on leveraging our GPU compute capabilities with >>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>> deformers." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The rigging toolbox works in Maya, Max and Softimage with our >>>>>>>>>> Splice plugin, so this all has the usual Fabric benefits of >>>>>>>>>> encapsulation >>>>>>>>>> and portability. As we move to visual programming next year, this >>>>>>>>>> work will >>>>>>>>>> all be compatible there as well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Last infomercial piece: http://fabricengine.com/get-fabric/ Fabric >>>>>>>>>> is free for individuals and we're giving 50 free licenses to >>>>>>>>>> studios, which >>>>>>>>>> helps when you're hoping people will contribute to a project like >>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>
