Thanks Jonah - I'm really hoping to see people pushing changes back and seeing this take on a life of its own. I'm glad it has hit the spot for you :)
On 12 December 2014 at 14:58, Jonah Friedman <[email protected]> wrote: > > Rigging toolbox looks super interesting and a great example of how to do > some things. It's very helpful, thanks for doing this! > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Sebastien Sterling < > [email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think open source is at it's best when someone just puts something out >> into the world and decides to takes a back seat. The FE guys are actively >> developing the platform, it's theirs and they are best suited to develop it >> further. >> >> Don't be calus Guy, i don't think paul has anything against open source, >> he is just saying that successful examples of it in co-relation with the >> complexity of the tools we use are few and far between. >> >> The FE guys will probably keep denying the consolidation of a DCC even as >> they pave over the last panel of the Maya UI with KL :P >> >> >> >> On 12 December 2014 at 18:49, Paul Doyle <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I explained the reasoning, I'm not going to go into this topic any >>> further. >>> >>> On 12 December 2014 at 13:47, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> But I have the feeling you think open-source automatically means 'free'. >>>> >>>> Your business is not selling software (I hope), your business is >>>> selling licenses. >>>> >>>> Using a dual-licenses approach, it would be free to use for >>>> non-commercial open-sourced projects, but studios would still have to pay >>>> licenses for proprietary development. So no change here in terms of >>>> business, this could even be transparent for your existing customers. >>>> Nothing would change for them and you would get the same amount of money >>>> from them. >>>> >>>> Yet, instead allowing them to distribute free Fabric tools if they >>>> choose to, this could perhaps allow them to sell Fabric tools too. Better >>>> business model for everyone. >>>> >>>> While being open-sourced and free for non commercial developments, >>>> trust is back and open-sourced communities developments could start. >>>> >>>> ps: a contract means nothing if a company disappear, I believe I'm not >>>> the only one who has experienced that. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Guy. >>>> -- >>>> >>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/12/14 19:01, Paul Doyle wrote: >>>> >>>> The fact is there are no successful open-source companies in our >>>> industry because the numbers don't work. The companies that do open-source >>>> in our industry are doing something else as their main business. Our main >>>> business is selling software. Typically a software company open-sources if >>>> they see an opportunity to build a services business/premium support model >>>> around their software - the conversion percentages here are typically <5% >>>> of the user base and often much lower. Simply put - our industry is too >>>> technical ("we don't need no stinking support") and too small (how many >>>> studios are there globally above 10 employees?) for that to be viable, we >>>> would die. >>>> >>>> As for trust - that was really my point in my last email. Fabric >>>> makes guarantees through our licensing agreements with customers - they >>>> don't have to trust what I tell them, they have a contract that gives them >>>> what they need. >>>> >>>> I get that many people feel burned and why that makes a very >>>> compelling argument for OSS alternatives. If we felt that we could be >>>> successful doing that, then we'd be doing it. There is no moral opposition >>>> to the notion of open-sourcing, it's a matter of doing such a thing if and >>>> when it makes sense. Right now that's not our position. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12 December 2014 at 12:33, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah well, with all the lies Autodesk gave us, how come can you expect >>>>> to be trusted ? >>>>> >>>>> Nothing personal though, you are not responsible. >>>>> >>>>> But the trust is lost, broken, irreversibly. They did a pretty good >>>>> job at it. Blame them. >>>>> >>>>> The only projects and products that deserve trust are open sourced >>>>> projects. Period. >>>>> >>>>> Yet I still don't understand why you are so afraid to open source the >>>>> core using a dual license. Take Berkeley DB from Oracle for instance. Open >>>>> sourced, dual licensed. I don't think Oracle stakes holders are less >>>>> business oriented than Autodesk ones. Wiser perhaps ? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Guy. >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/12/14 18:10, Paul Doyle wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Our customers all have agreements that protect them, and next year >>>>> we'll be pushing on the 3rd party licensing model which will also allow >>>>> people to distribute free Fabric tools if they choose to. If someone >>>>> wanted >>>>> to build a full-on DCC then we'd have a license agreement that would >>>>> protect them as well. >>>>> >>>>> There are more approaches to this than just 'open source all the >>>>> things!'. >>>>> >>>>> On 12 December 2014 at 11:27, Guy Rabiller <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Create a whole dcc on top of a proprietary closed source product that >>>>>> can disappear or be trashed at any time ? Are you kidding ? Will you ever >>>>>> learn ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess loosing Softimage was not enough for you ? Or you simply >>>>>> don't care ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I still do. For a long time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Guy. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12/12/14 14:39, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Il don't see the need to expose the core either, you can already >>>>>> create a whole dcc by yourself. You can extend the Splice standalone and >>>>>> add as many feature as you want. You can add/derive/modify all the KL >>>>>> objects. You can draw whatever you want in modern opengl and interact >>>>>> with >>>>>> the objects in the viewport. Integrate. c++ libraries and finally >>>>>> customize >>>>>> the ui with QT. >>>>>> What would you like to do by changing the core? >>>>>> Le 12 déc. 2014 06:00, "Thomas Mansencal" <[email protected]> >>>>>> a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Excellent! I'm not a rigger but my friends rigger are now aware :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri Dec 12 2014 at 10:31:36 AM Sebastien Sterling < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hot shit this stuff looks cool, just make a DCC already :P >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Na i get why that can't be a priority right now, still all this >>>>>>>> awsome... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are hungry for more i'm sure :) so congrats to all and to you >>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12 December 2014 at 08:23, Nicolas Esposito <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great job guys! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm very interested especially regarding the DeltaMush modifier, >>>>>>>>> looks fantastic! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Very interesting is the Blendshapes rig...about that I'm >>>>>>>>> thinking that the debugging of the blendshape could be used for >>>>>>>>> realtime >>>>>>>>> deformation ( displacement or wrinkle maps ) that triggers >>>>>>>>> automatically ( >>>>>>>>> ala Facerobot but much quicker ). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm still not familiar with Fabric Engine so pardon my questions >>>>>>>>> but: >>>>>>>>> - Regarding the captain atom rig, if I understood correctly you >>>>>>>>> are able via Alembic to bake all the deformation you setup with the >>>>>>>>> Rigging >>>>>>>>> Toolbox and then via script apply those deformation on the source mesh >>>>>>>>> itself, right? so, after I did all the deformations I want I can >>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>> bake those deformations with a script and then export the rig itself >>>>>>>>> in FBX >>>>>>>>> and those deformations are baked in, right? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Same question, but related to tge blendshape rig...at 22.10 >>>>>>>>> the locator is described as a container which holds the geometry, but >>>>>>>>> there's no actual geometry in the scene...in this case how the export >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> FBX would work? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers guys, this looks awesome! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2014-12-12 3:46 GMT+01:00 Paul Doyle <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Guy - no, we're not planning to open-source the core. Thanks >>>>>>>>>> for the analysis of our client base and users ;) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11 December 2014 at 21:28, Guy Rabiller < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Still no plan to make the Core open sourced (perhaps dual >>>>>>>>>>> licensed ala Oracle) and available to open sourced projects ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I see you are now in need for more users/clients, perhaps this >>>>>>>>>>> could be the right time ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Guy. >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> guy rabiller | radfac founder | raa.tel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/14 22:48, Paul Doyle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (X-Post from 3DPro) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone - something that has come up a few times with >>>>>>>>>>> customers has been 'can you give us some sample deformers written >>>>>>>>>>> in KL for >>>>>>>>>>> us to get started?'. The Rigging Toolbox is our pass at doing just >>>>>>>>>>> that: a >>>>>>>>>>> public repo where people can see how we've approached things like >>>>>>>>>>> delta >>>>>>>>>>> mush (is it too late to be considered part of the DM hype train?) >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> contribute back their own work if they want to. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> video here: https://vimeo.com/114272905 >>>>>>>>>>> website + link to repo: >>>>>>>>>>> http://fabricengine.com/rigging-toolbox/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "The Rigging Toolbox provides a collection of production >>>>>>>>>>> relevant tools that can be used when building character pipelines >>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>> Fabric Engine. These tools can be used as is, or purely as >>>>>>>>>>> reference as you >>>>>>>>>>> build your own implementations. Recently we have added a suite of >>>>>>>>>>> deformers >>>>>>>>>>> and are now working on leveraging our GPU compute capabilities with >>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>> deformers." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The rigging toolbox works in Maya, Max and Softimage with our >>>>>>>>>>> Splice plugin, so this all has the usual Fabric benefits of >>>>>>>>>>> encapsulation >>>>>>>>>>> and portability. As we move to visual programming next year, this >>>>>>>>>>> work will >>>>>>>>>>> all be compatible there as well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Last infomercial piece: http://fabricengine.com/get-fabric/ Fabric >>>>>>>>>>> is free for individuals and we're giving 50 free licenses to >>>>>>>>>>> studios, which >>>>>>>>>>> helps when you're hoping people will contribute to a project like >>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>
