I wasn't saying "backwards compatibility" is a con, just making a statement about general industry trends.
The industry has always been averse to Backwards comp. cause its more work on their end, and people won't update with the same regularity. opting instead to bully people and companies to march in lock step with them. there are legitimate reasons for this, but they are seldom in the clients interest. I find it difficult to re-conciliate having to "HACK" Maya files = feature doubtless some AD marketers would disagree with me :P Thx Tom ;) On 27 January 2016 at 10:49, Mirko Jankovic <[email protected]> wrote: > But also Maya have MORE of bugs and limitations as well so need more ways > around it too ;) > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Martin Yara <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks for your comments about my rig question. And no we don't use >> motion capture and I assume my client is using HIK for normal rigs. >> >> Back to topic, I agree with Joseph about exporting selection to .ma file. >> Maya data gets dirty pretty easily and sometimes it is impossible to clean >> it. Here is where exporting selection to .ma comes in handy. We have a >> little script to do this and I force everyone to use it before delivering >> data. >> >> Although not always straight forward, being able to open a simple scene >> in an old version is something I always wanted in Softimage. Every year I >> want to try those new fancy features that could make my life easier, but >> I'm stuck with a 3 years old version because the game pipeline is from 2 >> years ago. >> >> Being said that, I haven't being able to open Maya 2016 scenes in older >> versions, haven't tried that hard though. I guess I'll have to do some >> ASCII edition of the scene. >> >> Maya has a lot of workarounds for it's bugs and limitations, but to be >> fair, so did Softimage. >> Well, Softimage had less of that but it wasn't perfect either. >> >> Martin >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Sebastien Sterling < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Sorry Cesar, am having an off day, will be better soon. >>> >>> As for what happened to the list, i think it's name sake died (or was >>> smothered with a pillow). >>> >>> on the bright side, we learned, that maya has a method for picking joint >>> influences... >>> >>> some tips on rigging from Adam ... >>> >>> that mGear is a very good solution for rigging... >>> >>> that you can hack .ma files to fix your scenes remotely... >>> >>> that Seb should stick to his Valium prescription ... >>> >>> So yea lot of rants, but also some good info :) >>> >>> On 26 January 2016 at 21:16, Cesar Saez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> That's the attitude... >>>> >>>> What happened to this list? It used to be so good :( >>>> On 27 Jan 2016 7:09 am, "Sebastien Sterling" < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Ctrl/Alt/S will automatically increment and save. It’s a really >>>>> useful feature." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Same as Mudbox, yes i know. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "I also recommend: >>>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave" >>>>> >>>>> As great a source of system crashes and file corruptions, as of actual >>>>> legitimate saved situations. i've had to disable it in the past as it >>>>> would >>>>> crash on every routine backup, as there was some plug-in it didn't like, >>>>> or >>>>> the sky outside wasn't to it's liking, or 42 ... >>>>> >>>>> "Learned a long time ago that saving files in Maya ASCII had really >>>>> awesome benefits. " >>>>> >>>>> I always save in .ma, these are not benefits they are flaws >>>>> >>>>> 1 "It can be hacked" it should not have to be hacked, EVER. plus my >>>>> CV reads BA HONS in Film and Animation, not ancient Sumerian texts from >>>>> 1963 >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> 2 "make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software." Gona >>>>> have to go with, The software industry are Bastards ? inbuilt Obsolescence >>>>> anyone ? Still i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us >>>>> the lie from Autodesk. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a >>>>> Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter." >>>>> >>>>> Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an >>>>> industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit >>>>> question, just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux, >>>>> just the musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to >>>>> complete his runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ctrl/Alt/S will automatically increment and save. It’s a really >>>>>> useful feature. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I also recommend: >>>>>> >>>>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I >>>>>> save files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago >>>>>> that saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be >>>>>> hacked (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have >>>>>> failed or to make a saved version run in an earlier release of the >>>>>> software. I don’t know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It >>>>>> reveals a significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the >>>>>> seriously complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once >>>>>> to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya >>>>>> material >>>>>> converter. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d >>>>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to >>>>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long >>>>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Joey Ponthieux >>>>>> >>>>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II) >>>>>> >>>>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI) >>>>>> >>>>>> NASA Langley Research Center >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not >>>>>> >>>>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien >>>>>> Sterling >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand >>>>>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my >>>>>> heart >>>>>> isn't in it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the >>>>>> new tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the >>>>>> fucker dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work >>>>>> i >>>>>> hadn't sent to zbrush. >>>>>> >>>>>> am so tiered of this shit .... (head in hands) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh. >>>>>> But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :( >>>>>> G >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you >>>>>> don't have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being >>>>>> dirty... >>>>>> >>>>>> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package >>>>>> with a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the >>>>>> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky >>>>>> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but >>>>>> it works! >>>>>> >>>>>> Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no >>>>>> brainner... >>>>>> >>>>>> Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the >>>>>> window is tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of >>>>>> this, >>>>>> requires you to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting, manually ! >>>>>> forcing you to run up and down every time you need to change what you are >>>>>> skinning to. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool >>>>>> that is pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous >>>>>> versions without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based >>>>>> on >>>>>> Max workflow. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use >>>>>> paint weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven >>>>>> weights. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights, >>>>>> but way inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because >>>>>> it >>>>>> tends to mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I >>>>>> don't want to. SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all >>>>>> points (ex: the whole snake model), while Maya's Hammer do some decent >>>>>> job >>>>>> only if you select the points where the joints intersect. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If someone at Autodesk is reading, is it possible to have Softimage >>>>>> Smooth Weights to be ported to Maya? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ngSkinTools smooth was nice, but I didn't get used to it's workflow. >>>>>> I may give it another try when I need to paint weights. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I found another tool called as_SmoothNearest that looked good in the >>>>>> video demo, but it ended up being a combination of the Maya's default >>>>>> Weight Hammer command and grow selection. And without using the >>>>>> normalizing >>>>>> option with a potentially risk to have 1+ total weights per point. I >>>>>> fixed >>>>>> that code but, still not quite what I wanted. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I ended up writing a custom tool to use smooth paint for selected >>>>>> weights and lock all the other joints so it would only smooth based on >>>>>> the >>>>>> selected points deformers. Now with that, SkinWrangler and Maya's Heat >>>>>> Map, >>>>>> my weighting workflow is a little less painful. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Martin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the >>>>>> worst, it didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex >>>>>> weight >>>>>> selection assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they >>>>>> had >>>>>> a very practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few >>>>>> default pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to >>>>>> copy/past values. >>>>>> >>>>>> selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn >>>>>> around, but it is also the most precise method. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing >>>>>> algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb >>>>>> ?!) >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight >>>>>> tool i mean ? and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so >>>>>> help me god ! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Man I feel you guys’ pain. >>>>>> >>>>>> I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been >>>>>> in Maya land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and >>>>>> get >>>>>> the best from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into >>>>>> it, but like anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re >>>>>> gonna >>>>>> keep on comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant >>>>>> disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging >>>>>> and without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. >>>>>> It >>>>>> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the >>>>>> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in >>>>>> recent versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was >>>>>> the >>>>>> NEX stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016 >>>>>> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The >>>>>> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien >>>>>> Sterling >>>>>> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06 >>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you >>>>>> tried Fabric for rigging ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place >>>>>> of Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going >>>>>> to >>>>>> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to >>>>>> work >>>>>> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for >>>>>> rigging" >>>>>> >>>>>> Here, here man ! >>>>>> >>>>>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all >>>>>> the heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric >>>>>> to >>>>>> do all the heavy work. " >>>>>> >>>>>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ? >>>>>> >>>>>> can you paint weights in it as well ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for >>>>>> rigging. It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya. Which >>>>>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem. >>>>>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all >>>>>> the heavy work. >>>>>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all >>>>>> the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it >>>>>> converts >>>>>> data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL. I actually get >>>>>> faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated. >>>>>> ...but faster results out of XSI. Good old XSI. >>>>>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI. I always >>>>>> snatch it up and never turn my box off. >>>>>> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like >>>>>> 5 times faster in XSI. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about >>>>>> the pain of rigging in Maya. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for >>>>>> rigging in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many >>>>>> advancements in modeling. but nothing for rigging. >>>>>> no zbrush of rigging so to speak. >>>>>> >>>>>> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the >>>>>> quaddraw. feels really thought out. >>>>>> >>>>>> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in >>>>>> a package >>>>>> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality. >>>>>> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty >>>>>> basic >>>>>> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i >>>>>> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about >>>>>> your mesh you wanted to animate. >>>>>> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of >>>>>> iterations in the learning process. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I >>>>>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about >>>>>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya >>>>>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited >>>>>> rigging >>>>>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging >>>>>> drudgery.* >>>>>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many >>>>>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still >>>>>> sucks at it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >
