It is connected to the building in that the roof covers the walk way and
the elevator tower and it is also connected to the walkway. This is
similar to a motel where they have the all the rooms open to an exterior
walk that goes around the exterior of the building.
----------------------------
l l
l Building l
l l
---------------------------
Walk Way
-----------
l Elev. l
l l
-----------
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of art
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
Is the elevator outside the structure? Is it separated from the
residential
structure? If that is so the tower is not a hazard and should not need
protection since it is not part of a sprinklered building. Do I
understand
this example?
Art
ATCO Fire
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt
Olson
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
I have just the opposite problem. Condo building designed per 13R so no
heads required in elevator but the elevator inspectors wishes to be the
fire inspector and is requiring sprinklers in the pit and machine room.
Problem is the elevator and machine room are basically detached from the
rest of the building separated by an out side walk way and there is no
way to install sprinklers without the potential for freezing. Inspector
says that if there are sprinklers installed in the building the elevator
must have sprinklers per NFPA 13. When I try to explain that the
sprinklers are designed per NFPA 13R not 13 he says that ASME 17.1 only
references NFPA 13 so he is not aware of 13R so sprinklers are required
per 13. Has anyone else had a similar problem?
Kurt Olson
East Coast Fire Protection
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Canham
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
They keep it simple in Mass. No sprinklers are allowed in the shaft or
mechanical room. If they are existing they need to be removed.
Dave Canham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd
Williams
- work
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
Can of worms time.....
Do we design to the Standard (NFPA) or the Code (ICC or other
document adopted by the Jurisdiction)? If the Code modifies the
Standard and adds sprinklers, we would include them without question.
Do we do the same if sprinklers are omitted by the Code?
At 02:38 PM 4/3/2007, you wrote:
>I'm not trying to be difficult, (I don't think) but if NFPA 13 requires
it,
>the only correct way to design it is with a head in the pit whether the
AHJ
>or the EoR show it or require it. Unless the AHJ has some written
variance
>that has been adopted. It is our responsibility as "layout
technicians" to
>follow the code.
>
>Am I the only one on the forum that feels that way today? Maybe I
should
go
>fishing or something!
>
>Cliff
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian
Harris
>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 1:07 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
>
>I guess I should have worded that a little better but it was almost
lunch
>time and I was on my way out the door. The majority of the jobs we do
the
>AHJ does not require a head in the pit for whatever reason. If the
Engineer
>of Record does not call one out, and they rarely do, then we do not add
one,
>I do agree though that if there is known combustible hydraulic fluid in
the
>shaft a head should be installed.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Harris
>
>First Defense Fire Protection
>
> Design Engineer
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 704.948.3506 phone
>
> 704.948.3507 fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff
>Whitfield
>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:39 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
>
>
>
>Brian,
>
>
>
>I'm not sure where you get your info on this but NFPA 13 (02) 8.14.5.1
>
>requires heads in the pit unless that pit meets the requirements of
>
>8.14.5.2.
>
>
>
>As Chuck mentioned, nearly all of the hydraulic fluids used for
non-cable
>
>operated elevators is combustible. You have to put them in to meet
NFPA
13.
>
>What the GC does after that is his business but if he wants you to take
it
>
>out, make sure you get written direction to do it and keep it in your
files
>
>along with your letter of objection.
>
>
>
>Cliff
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian
Harris
>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:12 AM
>
>To: [email protected]
>
>Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
>
>
>
>Chuck,
>
>It's 80 and sunny here in North Carolina......
>
>
>
>Unless otherwise directed by the AHJ the rule of thumb is no sprinklers
>
>required in the pit, only in the machine room for hydraulic type
elevators.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Harris
>
>First Defense Fire Protection
>
> Design Engineer
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 704.948.3506 phone
>
> 704.948.3507 fax
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Haugen,
>
>Charles
>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:07 PM
>
>To: [email protected];
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Subject: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
>
>
>
>It's snowing again in Fargo!
>
>I know this has been asked before... I apologize.
>
>
>
>I have looked through NFPA 13, '99, '02, and '07 editions regarding
>
>protection in the pit... I've been on the phones w/ A.H.J.'s regarding
>
>their takes on protection... and the war that's waged w/ the Elevator
>
>inspector NOT wanting anything in the pit OR the elev. mech. room.
When
>
>asking the elevator installers regarding if they're using
>
>'noncombustible hydraulic fluids' we get the deer in the headlights
look
>
>followed by a "...does that even exist?" comment. There has been a
time
>
>or two where we have been instructed by the Elev. Inspector to remove
>
>all piping in these areas after the Fire Inspector has been through.
>
>
>
>What to do? I recall that there were talks about this during the NFPA
>
>meeting?? Correct?
>
>
>
>Chuck
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com
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