Hello Cliff,

Well for $30,000 per unit I will send a crew from the east coast...  I
think I could make money even with having to get all the licensing and
beauratic B.S.

Tuesday, May 15, 2007, 2:55:23 PM, you wrote:

> Scot,

> I agree with most of your post but the issue that we are discussing isn't
> from decades ago but from a TV interview with a professional from an
> engineering firm a few days ago regarding the necessity (or lack thereof)
> for sprinklering existing hi-rise buildings in downtown San Diego.  If you
> go back to the original post and listen to the interview, the FPE states
> that sprinklers would not really benefit in this situation. (I'm
> paraphrasing from memory, which we all know isn't the best thing to do!)  I
> believe that most of the folks in the sprinkler industry would agree that he
> is incorrect in his opinion and it is very detrimental to the sprinkler
> industry to have "professionals" make statements like that.  Sprinklers do
> save lives and shouldn't cost "$30,000.00 per unit" even in a retrofit
> situation, even on the West Coast.

> We all know that sprinklers work and in the case of a fire in a high rise,
> will save many lives.

> Cliff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of å... ....
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Schirmer Engineering

> That fire was quite a while ago,
> but the people too, have long since been gone as well.
> Everyone makes risky, calculated, sometimes even
>  dubious professional design decisions.  I have seen
>  authors in this thread make plenty of their share.
> These days there is a techno-babble name for it:
>  "Risk Analysis".

> If you make a bad decision, you should pay or
>   be punished for it, regardless of whether you
>   are a PE -- for penis envy
>   or a PE -- for prostitute extraordinare (french spelling omitted)
>   or a PE -- for professional engineer.
> The anamoly with fire protection is, the odds of incendiary
> damage are so small that many of these dubious decisions will
> never see their trial-by-fire.  The risk-based design decisions
> remain hidden and unnoticed to all but the professionals.  And
> by professionals, I mean EVERY person involved in bringing
> a life-safety sprinkler system to commission and keeping it there.
> Sure there is more responsibility given to the PE, but she can not
> guarantee that the fitter responsibly wiped away excess cutting
> oil, or tightened down all the flange bolts.  It is a team effort.

> Slander does not make the issue of
>   personal and corporate accounability go away,
>   and it reduces the caliber of discussion from
>   ideas to people.


> Everyone (designer, contractor, inspector ) has to
>   step up to the plate and do their individual time
>   at bat with their own integrity regarding the sprinkler
>   system.  Rather than libelling an entire league of
>   players for a couple of   individuals' very bad
>   judgment more than a decade ago, why don´t
>   we stick to discussing the ideas and decisions
>   involved in that incident, and cast stones as we
>   should, at only those individuals whom signed
>   and reviewed the report?   This name calling and
>   finger pointing sounds like a discreditation gambit
>   and grab for market share, to a distant observer.

> One thing positive I sense coming from this thread
>  is a need for more peer review on "performance-based"
>   design.  Needed it for quite some time.


> scot deal
> excelsior fire
> (pe:  phonically educated  :- )






>  As we all know, PE can also stand for Prostitute Extraordinaire.

>  On 5/15/07, wrote:

>> Might be a good time for anyone from Schirmer Engineering to speak
>> up.......
>>
>> PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING
>> Ph:      858-751-2930
>> Fax:    858-751-2933
>> Cell:  619-871-8450
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:08 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Slow news day
>>
>> Hi Xxx
>>
>> I didn't mention RJA because the San Diego matter only involved Schirmer,
>> at least to the best of my knowledge.
>>
>> But thanks for the additional info. Would you happen to have a copy of
>> FM's research ?.
>>
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-- 
Best regards,
 Charles                            mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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