What Chris said. How often will the reliability of a fire pump be tested by the owner? Depending on the application, codes, policies and diligence of the AHJ's enforcement, maybe regularly, maybe seldom. In the case of a SFD, maybe NEVER.
How often will the reliability of a combined water supply be tested? Every time someone flushes, for starters. The idea of using a fire pump for general service is a bad one; it will hammer the crap out of the domestic system until it blows up, but only if the underground doesn't blow first. NFPA standards leave the issues of "reliability" and "acceptability" up to the AHJ to some extent; so long as the water supply will deliver the demand (plus non-fire allowances), and meets a reasonable standard of care regarding dependability, then it should be acceptable. If the combined water supply doesn't meet the sniff test, then separate water supplies for fire and non-fire should be provided, but I would never put any non-fire system on a fire pump. In this case - a nursing home - the use of potable water is CRITICAL. If the water supply is encumbered in any way, it will be addressed. I would insist that a redundant pump be provided as a backup (in domestic terms it's called a duplex out here). So long as there is adequate care taken to back up the primary pump and the electrical utility is reliable, I don't have a problem with it. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Schmid Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Pump In my opinion, this pump would need to be a listed fire pump and installed per 20. I think this is an issue of reliability, and I cannot imagine an AHJ accepting an isolated system at an individual site without a rather rigorous analysis of the systems' reliability and performance. This is really not too much different than a large municipal supply that utilizes booster pumping stations. The big difference is there are AWWA and public service commission guidelines that mandate certain performance and reliability objectives. With so much in place, and at stake, there is seldom a question as to the reliability of the pumps that serve large municipal systems. I don't think the same comfort level could be reached for an isolated system without a very robust program in place to assure reliability and performance. Ray Schmid, P.E. Koffel Associates -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Autry Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Doug Hohbein Subject: Fire Pump Dear Forum, NFPA 13 (2002) 15.2.2* Pumps. A single automatically controlled fire pump installed in accordance with NFPA 20, Standard for the Installation of Stationary Pumps for Fire Protection, shall be an acceptable water supply source. A15.2.2 An automatically controlled vertical turbine pump taking suction from a reservoir, pond, river, or well complies with 15.2.2. I have an owner that wants to supply domestic water and fire protection water with a vertical turbine pump on a well. Does this pump need to be installed per NFPA 20? Does this pump need to be a listed fire pump? I've always ASSUMED that if a pump supplied fire protection it needed to be a listed fire pump installed per NFPA 20. Now I'm not so sure. David Autry Plans Examiner Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office 246 S. 14th Street Lincoln, NE 68508 402-471-9659 402-471-3118 fax www.sfm.ne.gov _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
