I kinda figured there would be either a lot said about it, or very little. I know it's kind of a tricky and touchy situation. Then to compound the issue even more I don't think anyone has a clear idea of how to fix it. I know I don't.
Jimmy -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Minkel Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Attic Rules Man, that about sums it up, nice response. Bill Minkel, Designer Western States Fire Protection, Dallas NFPA Member #2578666 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Attic Rules Jimmy, Attic design has been a real pain in the backside ever since NFPA 13 created the special criteria. I'm not ragging on the new criteria - changes were needed because the standard spacing rules didn't adequately protect typical attic spaces. But none the less, the new criteria can make you pull your hair out. The short answer: in some attic spaces (particularly narrow spaces with multiple slopes), you can't follow all the criteria. You and the AHJ are forced to make an engineering judgment call as to what criteria to meet and what criteria to let slide. And, no, 'attic sprinklers' aren't the magic bullet if the space isn't framed per the sprinklers listing. The longer answer and a bit of a soapbox: Did I say engineering judgment call? It's a good thing all us designers (ops, a politically incorrect term) and AHJ's are PE's. Otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to make an engineering judgment call. Unfortunately, we don't have a choice so we do the best we can - just don't let your insurance company know. Personally, I place a higher priority on the location and spacing of sprinklers that are away from the eave, and a lower priority on the location & spacing of sprinklers near the eave. I'd love to submit a proposal for the next 13 revision, but I really don't know how to fix it. I can envision an attic design criteria ballooning from 4 paragraphs (07 edition) to a dozen or so. Making it more complicated is not the answer, but forcing designers (with greatly varying degrees of engineering aptitude) to make an engineering judgment call isn't the answer either. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > Good Monday morning (at least out west) to all. I have a question I'd > like to pose. It is both practical and somewhat hypothetical. This > sort of relates to a question from the other day, and I didn't really > catch the general consensus of the group. Anyway, on to the > predicament. In an attic space, or open wood truss space, with a > pitch of 4 in 12 or greater, 8.6.4.1.4.3, dictates a minimum of six > feet from the eave, measured along the slope. What do you do when you > have a hip at one end of the building? > For example, I have a project where to maintain the six feet from the > eave, I must be 5'-8.25" from the eave, measured horizontally. This > distance leaves me 8'-5" from the corner of the building before > crossing the hip, and being under a different slope. What about this > uncovered area? Do you violate the rule with one sprinkler and pitch > it to cover both areas? > Do > you violate the rule with two heads and install a baffle? Does NFPA > have any recommendations? Do the experienced designers have any > recommendations? > Hopefully I explained this all well enough for everyone to understand. > I > would be more than happy to send a .pdf to anyone interested in > contacting me off-line. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jimmy Waite > > Burtell Fire Protection, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (406) 652-7697 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
