Actually, The reference to a listed indicating valve being installed 40ft from the building "if space permits" is found in the Annex of NFPA-13 and is referenced as (1) of the (4) allowable or acceptable valving arrangements from NFPA. It is therefore not a requirement of the NFPA standard, just the preferred method of the (4) allowable.
There is NO reference anywhere in 8.15.1.1 indicating the use of a curb box for fire hydrants only. Chapter 8.15.1.1 applies to any source of water supply feeding a sprinkler system. The more appropriate (in my opinion) reference would be Section 6.7.1.3 which specifically references listed indicating valves. However, this chapter also allows for the use of a curb box (with key) subject to the AHJ. Following the logic, though NFPA "requires" the use of a listed indicating valve, they also ALLOW the AHJ to accept an underground valve with roadway box and T-wrench. To require an additional 200+ft of underground to net a total of 9ft additional from the building for the PIV seems, at best, to be complete overkill. Ray Vance Chief Engineering Tech. Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. www.waynefire.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: PIV 40ft from Building I don't have a copy of NFPA 13-2007, but in the 2002 edition, 8.15.1.1 would prohibit use of a curb box valve in a sprinkler system supply line. They would be permissible for hydrant control valves only, right? If I'm the one missing something, let me know. James L.(Jim) Roberts, PE/SET Fluor Corporation 100 Fluor Daniel Drive - C104F Greenville, SC 29607 864.281.5149 864.281.4916(Fax) Roland Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/18/2008 11:13 AM Please respond to sprinklerforum To [email protected] cc Subject Re: PIV 40ft from Building Mr Frustrated This requirement has been in standard a long time so without researching it, I suspect only Chet Schirmer may know what the committee was thinking. I have always wondered why we still had it in the standard since it had to have been driven from the old days when mainly industrial facilities had sprinklers. It even refers to the plant yard in the text. It is so seldom used today. I know the DOE plant that I did 5 years of hard time at, there were no PIV's. Why don't you drop the PIV and just use the curb valve? IF they really want exterior access, put in a wall PIV. I'll look to see if there is a proposal that we can hang a comment on for the ROC meeting. I don't remember anything touching this so it'll probably be next cycle. Put it on your list of items to submit. Roland On Jun 18, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Mark Sornsin wrote: > Forum: > > > > Anyone know the reason WHY PIVs are to be located at least 40 ft. from > the building (on a fire service line piped into the building)? > > > > I have heard some theories - like to keep the valve free from a > collapsing wall. But I am curious if any of you have any definitive > explanations for that number. Why not 30 ft.? Why not 50 ft. > > > > We are dealing with an AHJ who is requiring we pipe an underground an > additional 200+ ft. around a corner just so our PIV can be at least 40 > ft. from the building. Otherwise, if we pipe straight out the > building, the public right-of-way is such that we'd be only 31 ft. > from the building with the PIV. This is not good enough for this > gentleman since, as he says, it is POSSIBLE for you to get it 40 ft. > away (with the 200+ ft. of underground). If there was no other way, > he would have allowed the 31 ft. separation. > > > > Frustrated-in-Fargo, PE > > Fire Protection Engineer > > Ulteig Engineers, Inc. > > 3350 38th Avenue S. > > Fargo, ND 58104-7079 > > > > Direct: 701. 280.8591 > > Fax: 701.280.8739 > > Cell: 701.371.5759 > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > www.ulteig.com <http://www.ulteig.com/> > > > > Confidentiality Notice > > This message may contain privileged and confidential information. 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