Really?  Two heads will keep you from being competitive?  That must be some 
real close bidding.


Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ch2m.com


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: ESFR Heads below obstructions

If you add the flow of two additional heads below obstructions you won't be low 
bid. The added flow will probably drive your main sizes up a pipe size and it 
may affect the fire pump as well.

It isn't all that dissimilar to storage racks. We know if racks with solid 
shelves are added to a warehouse the flow for the in-rack sprinklers would have 
to be added into the roof calc yet we don't make an allowance for them in the 
shell system, at least we don't.

Around here TI contractors chop up ESFR systems by adding heads at demising 
walls and under ducts but they don't do a new roof system calc.
I would bet that 8 out of 10 ESFR systems in Phoenix don't calc after TI but 
AHJ's around here either don't care or more likely don't know.

Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic
Phoenix, AZ


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of danarbel
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: ESFR Heads below obstructions

Well, I read all that and it seems that all you need are 12 heads

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 04 November, 2008 7:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ESFR Heads below obstructions

Dan,

All references here are from the '07 edition of NFPA-13:

14.4.4 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions,

the discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of the levels shall be included 
with those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations.

15.4.4 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions,

the discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of  the levels shall be included 
with those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations.

16.2.3.5 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions, the 
discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of the levels shall be included with 
those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations

16.3.3.6 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions, the 
discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of the levels shall be included with 
those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations.

17.2.3.4 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions, the 
discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of the levels shall be included with 
those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations.

17.3.3.5 Where ESFR sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions, the 
discharge for up to two sprinklers for one of the levels shall be included with 
those of the other level in the hydraulic calculations.

22.4.4.6.4 The requirements of 22.4.4.6.1 to include every sprinkler in the 
design area to be included in the system discharge shall not apply; where ESFR 
sprinklers are installed above and below obstructions, the discharge for up to 
two sprinklers from one of the levels shall be included with those of the other 
level in the hydraulic calculation.

Based on what I read in the ROP just published it doesn't look like any of 
these have been removed, although it appears that the wording in
22.4.4.6.4 has been moved around a bit, and a new 22.4.4.6.4.1 has been added 
(See 13-462, Log CP82 in the ROP)

Hope that is what you were after.
*
*PARSLEY CONSULTING

Ken Wagoner, SET
760.745.6181 voice
760.745.0537 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com 
<http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website



danarbel wrote:
> Question regarding the number of ESFR heads required for hydraulic
calc.
>
> The nominal number is 12.
>
> There was a requirement to add 2 heads if there are heads installed
below
> beams or AC ducts.
>
> If I'm not wrong the addition of 2 heads was abolished.
>
> Please confirm or correct me,
>
> Dan Arbel
>
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