Aw, so that whole sword thingy they did when presenting the certificate was for naught? Bummer...... ;)
No argument here, point is the level of trust and responsibility given to a particular individual should be commensurate with their practical experience not just paper knowledge. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 2:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: White papers and definition of roles It goes both ways Craig. There are plenty of designers that have never cranked a wrench. You don't know how many times I've seen a designer with those roman numerals behind his name think he knows how to balance a system, when to install a water curtain because NFPA 13 says so, or how to assign a hazard classification. They think NFPA 13 is the only code in fire protection. Many of them don't even know what IBC stands for let alone have one in their office. The issue of not having truly experienced professionals is a problem we have on the technician and engineering side of the fence. I hope you don't think that the NICET test a knighting ceremony. Duane Johnson, PE, SET Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 2:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: White papers and definition of roles I've held the position that no one should receive a PE license until they've actually worked in the field as an installer or helper for a contractor in their respective field for at least two years. I've seen far too many young engineers given responsibility over projects just because of those letters when they knew nothing more than a collection of calculation methods. But corporations, lawmakers and others foster the idea that 4+/- years of book learnin', time as EIT, and pass the test to get those letters, earns you the title of Expert. So we suffer with that misguided definition of "expert". Over the years it has been obvious which PE's (fire prot and others) have never been to the construction site to see their creation first hand. Trying to convince someone that just because you can draw it doesn't mean it can be built is one of the greatest challenges. Having worked for both Mechanical and Fire Protection contractors, dealing with Engineers was often the most difficult part of the project. I have learned to appreciate FPE's like Jim Roberts for his mentoring attitude and investment in the people he works with. Thanks! Craig L. Prahl, CET Lowly Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:09 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: White papes and definition of roles Ken, I have been saying this for years. Within my large organization, I get frustrated with PEs (and non-Fire Protection PEs) thinking they know fire protection. We've since reorganized in Greenville and don't have a separate department, but at one time we had up to 27 fire protection & auxiliary systems engineers and designers. I insisted that our engineers get their Level IIIs - minimum. In looking at resumes and conducting interviews, I was more interested in people who realized that no one is an expert in all aspects of fire protection, or for that matter automatic sprinklers systems. If someone claims it, watch out! James L.(Jim) Roberts, PE/SET Fluor Corporation 100 Fluor Daniel Drive - C104F Greenville, SC 29607 864.281.5149 864.281.4916(Fax) "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <ParsleyConsulting Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/07/2008 12:44 PM Please respond to sprinklerforum To [email protected] cc Subject Re: Fire Pump Suction Steve, that's what makes that idiotic best-of-all-possible-worlds white paper on the role of the PE and the designer so funny. It makes two assumptions which are absolutely brainless. First that there are enough PE's to do all that work, and second, that those same PE's actually know what they're doing. I used to be in awe of those two little letters, until a very proud of himself PE informed me that the appropriate remote area in a military BOQ was the 300' long hallway, which was 5'-0" wide, thus resulting in a 1,500 square foot remote area. On that day I became aware that those letters by themselves don't convey competence. What a pity. PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website Steve Leyton wrote: > I wonder how many projects out there have been scrambled like eggs by > the EOR ... > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams - FPDC > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 6:27 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Fire Pump Suction > > > >> Sadly I hang my head when I hear where was the EoR. >> >> John Drucker >> Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ) New Jersey >> > > I wonder how may projects there are out there with no EoR? > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
