David, I believe it is wrong to speak in derogatory terms about people or groups, but I believe it is equally wrong not to criticise or condemn the guilty. I also believe we should not refer to our public servants as political leaders. Leaders they are not, servants they are supposed to be. Respect they must earn, and they could certainly earn one persons respect and not anothers. If they were truely leaders, it would be easier to respect them, even if one doesn't agree. But for the most part, imho, far too many of our elected public servants, and this one in particula, act as if they are somehow in charge of everything, rather than being responsible to the Citizens of our great Country for the powers we entrust to them. I believe that not only Nancy Pelosi but the good citizens of California that voted for her or did not vote owe the people of this country an appology for sending this embarrassing example a public servant to Washington D C. Mark at Aero -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of David de Vries Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: system review, now "Pelosi"
That this forum has such outstanding participation and participants speaks to the fact that, like the children of a small MN town, we are all above average. One thing we seem to share is a desire to see good quality fire protection in our communities and in the work that we all do. This is the strength of the Forum. What we do not share, necessarily, is agreement on matters political (and perhaps religious, but I have not scene the words "Pope" or "Buddha" used in vain). As a courtesy to others, I would suggest that all Forum participants refrain from using the names of political leaders, particularly in a derogatory context, unless commenting on their positions on fire protection. Dave David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP Firetech Engineering Incorporated --- On Fri, 2/27/09, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: From: George Church <[email protected]> Subject: RE: system review To: [email protected] Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:23 PM Hmm. If you're objecting to the use of Pelosi as bs, I apologize but feel her actions and very public stature almost beg for it, and I'll likely continue. Sorry if it bothers you. I apologize if anyone was offended by Pelosi, but she offends me often. As for Leyton and McMahon, we often debate and disagree but remain friends- in Leyton's case, by avoiding political discussion, in Thom's, cooking. But hopefully Forumites know we're friends and much of this is planned backhanded compliments. If I really wanted to upset one of them, I'd post pics of the go kart racing- another reason to go to AFSA's national convention. I don't think there's much in the way of personal attacks on the forum, and as Ron recently exemplified, an apology is all that's needed to reverse what seemed like a good (or tolerable) idea at the time, but wasn't. He's certainly contributed enough good stuff to forgive him, and I know he has a ton of pressure on him with the volume slamming thru Aero (or at least DID). He's a good guy, have met him at Convention:) And ALL of us here are more equal than others who aren't. glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of å... .... Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:49 PM To: [email protected] Subject: system review I think it is Leyton-degrading to use someone's name in vain.although i am as guilty as the next. I know what it feels like to be cast as a jack-ass. Conform to the norm, or they assume you can't perform. If we got a God-Deal problem with something, then McMahon-almighty call out the problem, because the person is not the problem. and you probably are just creating another bigger problem in name blaming. The problem is: not-focussing-on-the-problem, and substituting a scapegoat for the situation. Focus on the issues, not the person. That way the chicken-Brumblebee readers will have to evaluate the article based on what actually is presented, rather than evaluating the article based on whose name gave the swag its game. It is low-brow, bad quality work, to call someone a Leyton-jerk. Separate the job from the person, and for certain it makes workin a lot easier. Will this happen in my lifetime? It hasn't since recorded history. Then why change? Because it is a better way, and you better assure that person the chance that person will be there and join forces with you in a future instance. This isn't group-hug... this is just good business duh. We all don't have to be sleep-over partners or hangover brothers to trust one another, if we argue over the most logical, and hopefully the most reasonable answers. Win some problems, lose others, but if we keep the personal MORE distant, then we all can go back at it, together, later, in a more objective and a less ego-bruised way. yes, I am God-Deal Leyton-ing Brumblebee-dick, but i refuse to let that label stick. evaluate the situation, not the author, company or authentication. It will help quell the herd mentality and propensity toward Animal Farm senility. scot deal excelsior fire engineering _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
