Larry, For some reason this thread has been entitled walk-in cooler which is not what Tony described. Instead he described a beverage cooler/dispenser, very large I'll grant you, but he also said it was completed full of beverages when loaded and (I suppose) those tilted beverage racks when empty. Sounds a lot like my refrigerator. I once had an AHJ pull this same interpretation on me (probably why I'm still caring while Tony dropped the topic days ago) and the device was essentially a very large coke machine, fork-lifted into place (just like a refrigerated deli counter would be) then connected to power. Sprinklering this thing required penetrating two steel walls (structural of about 20 or 22 gauge) exposing the heretofore metal encapsulated insulation to the building and the interior of unit to protect against a potential fire in a three foot deep metal box resting on the floor with glass doors that contained steel shelves holding glass bottles and metal cans containing beverages comprised of mostly water. The only way to call this an occupancy would be to use it for something it wasn't designed for. It has never been referred to as walk-in and it's always been seven feet high, three feet deep and thirty feet long. I'd even be willing to tentatively bet its three units side by side. Now all this is predicated on what I'm imaging this thing to be based on the description, but even if its a built in place box of the dimensions described it's still a little box with no appreciable fire load (non-combustible construction with non-combustible contents (and not being useful for any other use without going to extraordinary means) in the middle of a presumably sprinklered building.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:32 AM, larryshulman <[email protected]> wrote: > Regrettably, this section of NFPA 13 is poorly written. The word "occupancy" > here is not preceded by the word "human". The term "occupancy" is defined > by the NFPA in their Glossary of Terms, found at: > http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/GlossaryA2004.pdf > > Occupancy is simply the purpose or use of a building or part thereof. > > The section also uses the words "portable" and "attached to the finished > structure" in nearly the same breath. This is doublespeak and leads to > confusion, which allows the reader to make any of multiple interpretations. > Not a good direction to go and it needs to be fixed. > > A cooler such as the one discussed is really a substructure, very similar to > an ordinary hard wall/hard ceiling room. The fact that it might be > preassembled and use insulated core walls and ceiling does not make it > "furniture" under this section. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fairchild, > Jack > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Walk-in cooler > > You are correct, industrial ovens where pre-heated, high pressure oil is > present requires sprinklers as do some flammable liquid storage cabinets. > This is neither of those. > > >From NFPA 13, 2007: > > (7) Furniture, such as portable wardrobe units, cabinets, trophy cases, and > similar features not intended for occupancy, does not require sprinklers to > be installed in them. This type of feature shall be permitted to be attached > to the finished structure. > > > Jack Fairchild, CFPS | Fire Protection Designer | Ballinger | v > 215.446.0596 | f 215.446.0597 | 833 Chestnut Street Suite 1400 > Philadelphia, PA 19107 | > www.ballinger-ae.com<http://www.ballinger-ae.com> > larryshulman larryshulman at earthlink.net > <mailto:sprinklerforum%40firesprinkler.org?Subject=Walk-in%20cooler&In-Reply > -To=44587969A9EB6A458C2664D74F80F9FB3D57B6D1%40mail-3> > Fri Apr 24 15:10:01 CDT 2009 > > > I'm confused how if the space is inhabitable should be a criterion for > > installing sprinklers. After all, sprinklers are installed inside > > industrial ovens and flammable liquid storage cabinets all the time. Nobody > > in this discussion thread has asked if the cooler construction warrants the > > installation of sprinklers. Although the surface of the cooler walls and > > ceiling may be metal lined, what happens if it is exposed to heat, warps, > > and exposes the foam insulation beneath? That's why UL Listed or FM > > Approved panels need to be used, to ensure the construction materials don't > > contribute to the fire load. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-bounces at > firesprinkler.org<http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerf > orum> > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces at > firesprinkler.org<http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerf > orum>] On Behalf Of Fairchild, > > Jack > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 11:13 AM > > To: sprinklerforum at > firesprinkler.org<http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerf > orum> > > Subject: RE: Walk-in cooler > > > > I don't see how a 10' deep box could not be a walk-in style. There's two > > main problems. The required slope of the shelves would drive the height of > > the box beyond 7' and loading the box from the front would very difficult to > > manage. It's too much weight to push. It could be front loading from all 4 > > sides of the box. Personally if you can walk inside, you need a sprinkler, > > otherwise it's really large furniture. Also at 7' high it's likely the > > required 18" clearance isn't going to be met. > > > > Jack Fairchild, CFPS | Fire Protection Designer | Ballinger | v > > 215.446.0596 | f 215.446.0597 | 833 Chestnut Street Suite 1400 > > Philadelphia, PA 19107 | www.ballinger-ae.com > > > > > > George, > > > > I don't recall it being described as "big insulated panel box.' In > > fact I think Tony said he hadn't seen it. Go back a post or two. My > > thought is that if this thing is a factory manufactured device that > > is brought out on a truck, dropped off and plugged-in (even if it > > comes in large sub-assemblies that just plug into each other) then > > it's a big reefer and not a room or space. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupport at > firesprinkler.org<http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerf > orum> > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum-request at > firesprinkler.org<http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerf > orum> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
