According Brian's original message: "...We are working on a pretty big school and the HVAC sub (per the spec) is suppose to be spearheading a set of coordination drawings that all subs need to agree on and then sigh off on before "any work can be fabricated or installed"."
I'm going back to my original comment about the Architect. Since it's a "pretty big school" big and school in the same phrase each individually assure an architect was involved. The architect, his spec writer, or an independent spec writer (on the architect's design team) wrote this thing. It specifies the drawings need to be produced, coordinated, agreed upon by all sub contractors involved and that they sign that agree "any work can be fabricated or installed". To not follow these requirements is to deviate from the construction documents without authorization. The architect's role is as agent for the owner, in this case presumably a governmental entity. As agent the architect's charge is to look to the owner's best interests. For Brian to keep quiet or to act per most of the suggestions would not necessarily be in the owner's interest. If the HVAC guy is acting as a rogue sub and using the power this spec gives him (coordinator) for his own purposes and the GC will not, can not, or just doesn't care enough to do anything about this then it's time to make an ally of the architect. You may piss off a bad GC that causes you to lose money but is that a big deal. I'd rather have negotiated contracts from a few A&E firms or deal directly with owners than be playing the low bid game. Architect's love to have fire guys on their side because most don't really get the culture and fear the fire marshal because of it. What all the one's that turn to me for advice (and read architect as owners and architects) do know though is that the FM speaks NFPA as well as ICC and has final power over the C of O. They also know I can translate and have personal relationships with most of the local AHJs or carry enough credentials to demand a little professional courtesy from those I don't know. As always I'm rambling. Bottom line is if the GC doesn't provide satisfaction (i.e.: stop the HVAC guy and require he abide by the contract) then the architect is where to go. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Fletcher, Ron<[email protected]> wrote: > Here is a different approach. Most of the comments are what we would all > like to do in that situation but not very realistic. Picking fights with > other trades and GC's is nonproductive at best and may cost more in the > long run than just getting it done. Especially if you ever want to work > with the same construction team again. > > Next time with this GC you will know to install first and install high. > Deal with the duct work when cutting drops. High and tight will usually > eliminate most coordination problems. > > Just my 2 cents. > > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic - Phoenix > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:35 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Renegade HVAC Contractor > > If he messes up your project, the Project Manager/ GC is at fault and > creating delay and posibly additional expenses for you to complete your > work. > Place a Change Order request with the GC or notice of claim asap for > additional field engineering and delay. You must assert this claim right > away. The GC will likely brush it off if it is a smaller project but > they'll know your serious when you lien the project. Documentation of > everything is extremely important. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Williams <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 2:10 pm > Subject: RE: Renegade HVAC Contractor > > > > Make sure you set up a camera to get video of them taking it down > > > > At 02:02 PM 7/30/2009, you wrote: >>You could consider just throwing up a couple lengths of pipe alongside > the >>big openings on their trunk duct, amking sure you're the size of the > opening >>+ 6" away from it so you've accommodated the offsets they'd need to get >>around you. Start with the openings just outside the meeting room. >> >>A couple lengths under roof top openings should give them a clue that > you're >>serious. In one day you should be able to hang a couple lengths in > front of >>several of these, no outlets required, helps you make your point. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Fletcher, Ron >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:21 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Renegade HVAC Contractor >> >>At least you are not spending money and time on BIM while all the other >>trades are doing installation. Remember the sprinkler creed "install >>high install first". >> >>Ron Fletcher >>Aero Automatic >>Phoenix >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >>Harris >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:02 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Renegade HVAC Contractor >> >>I could use a little ammo for an upcoming coordination meeting I have > on >>Monday. We are working on a pretty big school and the HVAC sub (per the >>spec) is suppose to be spearheading a set of coordination drawings that >>all subs need to agree on and then sigh off on before "any work can be >>fabricated or installed". These drawings still have not been completed >>and are actually not even close to being done. >> >>Here's where it gets good: >> >>* He has already begun installing his duct and has actually >>completed >>a couple wings. (without the approved coordination drawings) >>* He wants to run all his ductwork 8" above ceiling throughout > and >>says sprinkler > pipe needs to run above him, "that's industry standard" >>!! >>* He says he's never heard of ductwork being run through the >>joist, >>it's always the sprinkler lines that run up high. (this is in areas > with >>ceiling tiles) >> >>I could go on and on but I think you get the point, what I would love > to >>have is some hard facts/references that I can provide at the meeting so >>this doesn't turn into a bigger pissing contest than it already has. I >>don't dare release our pipe for fab without the drawings being signed >>off but in the mean time he is installing away! >> >> >>Regards, >> >> <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: >>6.12940 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
