Yes, they would both be prone to ice build up from the warm air that the compressor is receiving, although hopefully it not cycling much. It is usually not much fun to find out something has been blocked by ice, when it is too late. I did catch the note on the grooved couplings and how 90% of them are flexible going out by the supplier. I wonder if extra sway bracing is being applied.
Todd Letterman Fire Protection Engineer Riverside County Fire Department (951) 955-5273-Fax(951) 955-4886 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Damien Shannon [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: dry system drains I don't see anything in '07 that gives conditions for the aux drain to be located in a heated area (other than for Wharfs/piers). I'm not sure if there would be a difference in the types of buildings. Would seem both have the dry valve located in a heated area, air compressor would often be located in a 'riser room' and pipe in a colder environment. Both dealing with drops in pipe (drop downs to feed racks in the storage building versus drop under obstructions for the Retail examples). Would both not be equally prone to the warmer air that the compressor is getting from the riser room, creating condensation and then turning to ice? I could see the problem with trying to open a closed valve:) Damien Shannon. QED Sprinkler Design, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Letterman, Todd Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: dry system drains Actually both of you are right about the sections, and yes in a cold storage facility sometimes it would be difficult to pipe a drip drum or auxiliary valve to heated area. The only problem is the transition between differential temperatures with the line. Usually unless there is something wrong with the Dry system main pitch back to the valve all the piping with in the cold storage would be the same temp. No condensation for the drip drum to collect, but in the case of big box retailers who cover the canopies, garden centers and lumber canopies where the main and lines sometimes cannot be physically pitched back towards the valve, the temperature difference between where the valve sits (heated space) and where the drip drum is placed (outside)(Midwest) is great. You cannot drain a frozen valve without heat! I think this has been addressed for many years through proposals but difficult to do depending on the building. Sorry kind of a winded reply, but I have seen literally hundreds of these around the country when I traveled, not a whole lot you can do to drain a drip drum when it is 10 below out side. I wished I had the 2010 NFPA 13, but no budget. Let me know if you find anything else regarding the issue. Todd Letterman Fire Protection Engineer Riverside County Fire Department (951) 955-5273-Fax(951) 955-4886 [email protected] "Life's not about waiting for the storms to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain." -----Original Message----- From: Damien Shannon [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: dry system drains Section 8.16.2.5.3.1 of 2010 states 'Aux drains located in areas subject to freezing shall be readily accessible'. Would therefore seem ok to be located in an area prone to freezing so long as the valve is accessible. Would be difficult to provide a drain in a heated area if you have a dry rack system. Damien Shannon. QED Sprinkler Design, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: dry system drains 7.4.4 applies to Subdivision of systems with check valves. 7.4 is for combined dry pipe and pre-action systems. 7.4.4.4 does not apply to dry systems. Right? (or am I wrong?) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Letterman, Todd Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: dry system drains NFPA 13 2002 7.4.4.4 Section drain lines and dry pipe system auxiliary drains shall be located in heated areas or inside heated cabinets to enclose drain valves and auxiliary drains for each section. I don't know if this is what you are looking for or not. Hope it helps. Todd Letterman Fire Protection Engineer Riverside County Fire Department (951) 955-5273-Fax(951) 955-4886 [email protected] "Life's not about waiting for the storms to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain." -----Original Message----- From: Robert Thompson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: dry system drains Is there a code in 13 that states a dry pipe aux. drain or drum drip need to be in a heated area? Thank you Robert Thompson DAKOTA FIRE PROTECTION 1710 N. 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