Sleeves are being provided in every concrete wall throughout the facility that I am currently working on. Early in the project, a study was done to determine where the sprinkler piping would enter each room and a sleeved opening was provided. Coring holes in the concrete walls is almost impossible, as the core boring is not allowed to cut more than one rebar. The rebar in most walls is 4-inch on-centers in both direction and there are two or more rebar mats in each wall. The sprinkler subcontractor has been able to route the piping such that core holes have not been required.
Dale Eggen, PE BNI -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sleeve Ok, let's get real, Architects are the ones who typically require the sleeves in their walls. Sleeves are prettier than ghastly, ravaged wall openings created by savage, unbathed contractors because it's written to be that way in the spec. Stop arguing about it. Many times things like sleeves can be based on a lot of issues, the client's or Underwriter's requirements or the A/E's bad experience with Bubba, Enus and Lothar Fire Protekshn Speshulists. Each bad experience tends to add at least 5 pages to the spec to cover these issues for the next go-round. ;) But seriously, there are cases where the sleeves are a requirement and times when they are just a preference. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sleeve OK so why would they cut the hole for the sleeve any different? And doesn't the pipe create the same seal? We tend to use pipe with few holes in them. Guess I can't speak for others, lol. And actually our pipe is hanging long before the sheet rockers get there. New construction accounting for the vast majority of work. And sheetrock whether metal or wood studs makes up the vast majority of the walls. And block would usually be there before our pipe so again to the question above why would they cut the hole for the sleeve any different? And...And...And... What I hear is instead of requiring a sleeve they could be spec'ing a performance standard for the annular space around the penetration. Then whoever makes the hole takes care to not use the hammer. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sleeve Yes you have no shame, how dare you even ask! But the answer is..... wait for it.......... The sleeve. Otherwise when penetrating a block or stud wall there is an exposed cavity if you have allowed any space between your pipe and the wall material. Hard to describe here in words. You're assuming that all contractors cut nice clean holes no bigger than 1/32" larger than their pipe and there is no space around the pipe. Most put holes in concrete with a sledge hammer or use the sawzall to cut their holes in sheet rock if they don't also use a hammer in that application and the hole is about 3 times bigger than it needs to be. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Sornsin Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sleeve (o.k. I know I'm going to regret asking this - but I have no shame) What provides the solid interior surface when a sleeve penetrates a block or stud wall? Mark A. Sornsin, PE | Fire Protection Engineer Ulteig Engineers, Inc. |Fargo, ND Direct: 701. 280.8591 | www.ulteig.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sleeve In walls they can provide a solid interior surface when penetrating block or stud walls and provide closure to the wall cavity. They also provide for a space between the pipe and wall for packing if necessary when providing certain UL listed penetrations at rated walls and partitions. Sleeves are at times a requirement in walls or floors of particular construction types in order to maintain the assembly's rating. UL details require sleeves for penetrations in many cases. ject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
