Good Lord!!!! A rational rationale. Kudos. On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Eggen, Clarence (Dale) <[email protected]> wrote: > Sleeves are being provided in every concrete wall throughout the facility > that I am currently working on. Early in the project, a study was done to > determine where the sprinkler piping would enter each room and a sleeved > opening was provided. Coring holes in the concrete walls is almost > impossible, as the core boring is not allowed to cut more than one rebar. > The rebar in most walls is 4-inch on-centers in both direction and there are > two or more rebar mats in each wall. The sprinkler subcontractor has been > able to route the piping such that core holes have not been required. > > Dale Eggen, PE > BNI > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sleeve > > Ok, let's get real, Architects are the ones who typically require the sleeves > in their walls. Sleeves are prettier than ghastly, ravaged wall openings > created by savage, unbathed contractors because it's written to be that way > in the spec. Stop arguing about it. > > Many times things like sleeves can be based on a lot of issues, the client's > or Underwriter's requirements or the A/E's bad experience with Bubba, Enus > and Lothar Fire Protekshn Speshulists. Each bad experience tends to add at > least 5 pages to the spec to cover these issues for the next go-round. ;) > > But seriously, there are cases where the sleeves are a requirement and times > when they are just a preference. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sleeve > > OK so why would they cut the hole for the sleeve any different? And doesn't > the pipe create the same seal? We tend to use pipe with few holes in them. > Guess I can't speak for others, lol. > > And actually our pipe is hanging long before the sheet rockers get there. > New construction accounting for the vast majority of work. And sheetrock > whether metal or wood studs makes up the vast majority of the walls. And > block would usually be there before our pipe so again to the question above > why would they cut the hole for the sleeve any different? And...And...And... > > What I hear is instead of requiring a sleeve they could be spec'ing a > performance standard for the annular space around the penetration. Then > whoever makes the hole takes care to not use the hammer. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:43 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sleeve > > Yes you have no shame, how dare you even ask! > > But the answer is..... wait for it.......... The sleeve. > > Otherwise when penetrating a block or stud wall there is an exposed cavity > if you have allowed any space between your pipe and the wall material. Hard > to describe here in words. You're assuming that all contractors cut nice > clean holes no bigger than 1/32" larger than their pipe and there is no > space around the pipe. Most put holes in concrete with a sledge hammer or > use the sawzall to cut their holes in sheet rock if they don't also use a > hammer in that application and the hole is about 3 times bigger than it > needs to be. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Sornsin > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:33 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sleeve > > (o.k. I know I'm going to regret asking this - but I have no shame) > > What provides the solid interior surface when a sleeve penetrates a block or > stud wall? > > > Mark A. Sornsin, PE | Fire Protection Engineer > Ulteig Engineers, Inc. |Fargo, ND > Direct: 701. 280.8591 | www.ulteig.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sleeve > > > In walls they can provide a solid interior surface when penetrating block or > stud walls and provide closure to the wall cavity. They also provide for a > space between the pipe and wall for packing if necessary when providing > certain UL listed penetrations at rated walls and partitions. > > Sleeves are at times a requirement in walls or floors of particular > construction types in order to maintain the assembly's rating. UL details > require sleeves for penetrations in many cases. > > ject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >
-- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
